[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

I read that it was because they started putting catalytic converters on diesels? The zinc fouls the converter?

Yep
Started around 2005

[78w72]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

I had a Melling RAIV cam with Johnson lifters in my 455 for about 20 years. Had been running Rotella oil for at least 10 years. Used to run 20w50 before that. Then , one day it wiped out a cam lobe. I heard that they removed the zinc from Rotella. I never researched to see if that's true or partially true. That seems like pretty strong proof that it's not just parts. I agree that it's probably both parts and oil killing the flat cams these days.

they didnt "remove" the zinc (zddp) from rotella or any oil. they did reduce the levels in diesel oils as well as gasoline oils due to damage to catalytic converters. but to say they removed it implies they removed all of it, which is not true.

ALL modern oils have pretty good levels of zddp, usually around 900-1000ppm, down a little from the "old days" oils that had ~1200-1400ppm. but a big thing most people overlook or are not aware of is that modern oils use a new technology zddp that lasts longer so not as much is needed to do the same job, plus they use other modern anti wear additives that compensate for the lower levels. modern oils dont need crazy high amounts of zddp.

also stock to mild size already broken in cams dont need a ton of zddp like bigger or race type cams with heavy spring pressures or new cams being broken in. lots of stock FT cams on the road still that use regular off the shelf oils without any problems with the cams/lifters.

i follow bobistheoilguy forums that guys post all kinds of oil analysis results for new & used oils, have yet to see any new name brand oils below 900-1000ppm zddp & they all have lots of other additives for anti wear.

[Don 79 TA]

i use the Motul 10-60 now because the 20-60 is no longer available
either one has worked great for me
i do live in the dessert so its hot as heck in the summer, which is why i use the thicker grades
shaking the cans and hearing the oil, i'll be honest doesn't sound so thick compared to the 0-20/0-30s i use in the dailys
sorta sounds/feels like water being shook in a container vs say whole milk/2% if you kindda get my point

[srmmmm]

I've been driving BMW's since 2000 and accumulated 750,000 miles of "experience". My highest mileage vehicle so far was a 2002 X5 3.0L that I sold with 390,000 miles on it. I used it to tow a 1500 pound PWC rig about 3000 miles a year during that time. I'd run the M series 10W-60 oil from May through September to reduce consumption and provide a bit more viscosity headroom in our Texas summers. I believe Castrol was the supplier. The BMW engines do typically run tighter clearances, but not the M series. Those engines are expected to see higher operating temperatures so clearances are larger to allow for expansion. I did notice the engine ran quieter with that oil, but it turned over slower on cold morning starts.

My current 2016 X5 is happy with the 0W-30. With 100,000 miles on the engine, consumption is still less than a quart in 7500 miles and I don't worry about cold startups on the turbo bearings knowing it's got just about instantaneous oil flow. My oil temps run from 185 to 235 depending on highway/city driving situation and are not affected by ambient temperature as much as you would think. Coolant and oil temps are all computer controlled with electronic thermostats and the electric water pump. The newer M engines get a 5W-40 oil now, supplied by Shell.

The 2002 still had the original transmission fluid in it at 390,000 miles too! It was the GM 5L40-E transmission.

[78w72]

wow, 390k miles is impressive! what type of oil filter did you use?

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by 78w72

wow, 390k miles is impressive! what type of oil filter did you use?

Always OEM and stuck with Castrol synthetic oils.

[Kenth]

The lowest pour point on any 10w- engine oil is -39°C.
The viskosity on a (10w-) 30 engine oil is (kinematic 100°C) 11.9.
The viskosity on a (10w-) 60 engine oil is (kinematic 100°C) 22.7.

Go figure....

And, you can find the specs on any oil producers home site if needed.

Since long i don´t question the manufacturers recommendations on engine oil viscosity. Why mess with success?

[78w72]

Originally Posted by srmmmm

Always OEM and stuck with Castrol synthetic oils.

hmmm....

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Kenth

The lowest pour point on any 10w- engine oil is -39°C.
T

Actually there are thicker oils that go lower and thinner oils that don't even reach -39 celcius which is -36.4 fahrenheit for those of us in America , as seen in this comparison chart.

https://mcgeerf.tripod.com/americans...coil/id17.html

That's why I asked what brand 10-60 they are using since they can all be vastly different, I won't automatically assume it's thick and horrible without seeing some specs on it.
There are some 20w-50's on that chart that pour -49 degrees, better than some of the 10w-30's, for example.

[Kenth]

Some oil producers probably have some way of presenting themselves as better than others in order to sell their product, but all you have to do is go to their website and compare the specifications under the same conditions and you will soon see what is produced.
What is more important than the "pour point" is the viscosity of the oil under normal operating temperature in the engine.
"Pour point" is hardly a selling point for those who drive their car.

[Formulajones]

It should be as it's a good indicator of what that particular viscosity is doing. But people miss that all the time, too fixated on the old ways. Oil today is vastly different than 50 years ago. It's the cold operating temp everyone is worried about, not the hot operating temp.

That chart is just a small example, I have no reason to believe it's fudged in any way. I'd encourage anyone to research themselves from various sources and feel free to post it up.

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by 78w72

hmmm....

When I had to replace the valve cover at 242,000 miles (cracks cause nasty vacuum signals to the CCVS), I asked them to thoroughly inspect the visible internals. They could measure no wear at all on the cam lobes, and virtually none on the timing chain, and everything was as clean as it could be. Most of my oil consumption came from a deteriorating oil pan gasket and front axle seals. BMW uses a rubber encapsulated steel pan gasket that tends to harden and crack and the right side axle shaft goes through the oil pan.

[78w72]

not surprised, all kinds of vehicles with 250k-300k+ miles using OEM type filters. some toyota trucks, SUV's & cars out there that easily go to 300k miles & more... all using spin on filters which some claim cause terrible wear and you need a toilet paper filter to reach those kinds of miles.

[Formulajones]

Uh Oh...... and were off

[Steve C.]

Fuel on the fire....

This reminded me of a conversation I had with a Valvoline Tech Rep.
At the time I was using their 10W-30 VR1 full synthetic racing oil.
He told me with clearances under .0025" they did not recommend the use of 20w-50 oil.


.

[Dragncar]

BMWs, Porches, Volvos ect, over engineered, overthought. over complicated European junk.
If it takes a special tool to remove the fuel pump, valve cover like a Volvo............... I don't want it. Only reason I have a Volvo in the stable is it was given to me with a blown engine.
200$ an hour technicians, sounds great right ?
I did a clutch once on a BMW for a guy. The freaking flywheel was multi piece. Had some dampener in it.
Simple is good, over complicated bad.
Throw some 10-30 Shaeffers in this thing and be done with it.