[Steve C.]

Update on 'Little Pooch'.
I probably should have started over but I decided to continue here because of the above discription of the event itself and sorry this is long winded, its been a few months [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Over winter we decided to continue with this 'Little Pooch' thing. Brad Dinkel, who drove and is John's brother, and I decided it would be fun. Plus we wanted to play around with the nitrous some more.
Problem is two of my non-Pontiac buddies, who have faster cars also decided to get involved. Both run Mustangs out of John's shop, another Brad with a 9-second small-block stick car and Randy with a big-block car that's knocking on the 8-second door.
Well the first race of the season in Feb. started off bad. During the eliminations one of the 'Big Dog' compettors, a blown alcohol/tube chassis car, went off the end of the track and was killed. The event was postponed.
(during the lull I borrowed a tighter converter from a friend, but the combination is still not optimum)
Fast forward... the postponed first race and second race were held on the same night last month. Brad was runner up in both races! We have had lady luck on our side.... all the faster cars keep breaking during the eliminations, including my two buddies! In both these races we faced the same fella with a Chevy Nova in the final round... he beat us both times. The last one with a 9.87 to our 9.88 Wow this heads-up racing is exciting!
The seasons third race is next Friday night the 19th and I think our days are numbered.
Randy won't be back with his Mustang because his motors still in the shop but many of the other faster cars will be back in force, including my buddie with a new 9-inch rear end assembly in the stick car... but damn, now John has taken his small-block Ford Fairmont 'off the shelf' to enter this thing and punish us.
He got a current state inspection sticker, changed rear gears and bought some 10.5" ET Street tires and ran a 9.25 on a test run last week.
We'll see how lady luck treats us next week.

[Goatman]

Wow this heads-up racing is exciting!

Holy SH*T! Another hard core racer comes around! Congrats, you have seen the light my friend. You'll never go back to bracket racing (AKA the dark side)again!

Now, when are we all going to agree on a set of rules to start a class????????????????

[Bud Lyons]

Goatman, No way will anyone agree to 1 set of rules.lol Just ask for a defination of a street car and see what you get.

Steve, Great job on the heads up racing. Have you made a full N20 pass yet?

[Goatman]

Bud, I figure if it works for other marques and other racers, then sooner or later, there will be 5 or 10 MEN who will step up to the plate. No room for babies in heads up competition.

Street cars, race cars, who cares. I think if we could get 5-10 guys who could agree and run a few races, then the rest would follow or continue to be bored to death in the brackets.

[Bud Lyons]

Bruce, I'm not saying it can't work. We just need to come up with some classes for the cars to run in. A person with a 13 second car will never want to run if they have to go heads up with a 10 second car.

Do we make it run what ya brung. Winner take all. Paul Spotts would eat everyones lunch.

I'm game if we can somehow give everyone a level playing field.

[Goatman]

A. If you go to every race expecting to win, you will be sorely dissapointed always.

B. Paul Spotts has a car? No offense to anyone.

Two classes is all that is needed. One for 10.5" cars and one for tubbed. Make a minimum weight and let her rip. Why the "lax" rules? Who's gonna police the event? Not me. Wanna make it more "streetable"? Have everyone run mufflers, we'll all have to in a couple of years anyway.

By making the wieghts even, you even the playing feild. This is where the guys building real power rise to the top and the guys who drive light weight go karts covered in fiberglass get to go home pissed.

All the "tech" guys need to do that way is weigh the car after it makes a pass and that's it! Sounds like a fair game to me................

If you're not making enough HP, then you build more, that's the whole point of heads up racing!

What do ya'll think?

[Skip Fix]

Take a look at the Buick guys classes. They have a "stock appearing" OUTSIDE must be stock appearing Q jet cast iron intake, exhaust manifolds-hogging out is OK, any cam as long as it passes vacuum rule. I think convertor diameter is spec'd too. These guys are pretty fast. Then they have the aftermarket intake etc class, I think even with stock suspension. Then the tubbed cars.

[Goatman]

Problem is, the more classes and rules, the more "techies" you need. Can't start out that way without cash. Need to get car counts up and then grow your rules and classes as $ allows.

[fasteddy]

Bruce, you're dreamin' bud. The track owners know where the money is and it is not in heads up racing. You will al;ways have to put up with us bracket racers because we pay the bills. No brackets, no gate, no track. It's that simple.

[Goatman]

Eddy, ever heard of the NMCA/NSCA? Go to ANY event, anywhere in the country and you'll see a very interesting phenominom, the stands are PACKED like there was a national event happening there. Its a fact, I've been to them. I've been to bracket races too, there were a few people awake in the stands, but most needed life support to "come back" to this world.

Also, check out the Southern Outlaw 10.5 races, where fans and racers have to be turned away due to over attendance and the $10,000 payouts really "suck" for the racers too.

Also check out the Fast Ford shows and the NMRA, its more of the same trend.

Time to do some homework, my friend, brackets are dying, heads up is the fastest growing motorsport in the WORLD. Faster than NASCAR, faster than NHRA comps, faster than INDY. Simple fact. If it weren't for the whiners, there wouldn't be bracket racing at all.............

[gtoguy1967]

fun ford runs a true street we go to it at norwalk. you have to pass a real simple tech. you have to have curent plates and registrtion all lights have to work,horn ,wipers. then it has to have all your safty stuff roll bar ect. they have 3 state cops take you on a 30 mile (not a very easy one at that lots of slow speeds) and you come back you can not do any thing to the car(remember its a street car) you make 3 passes they add them up and divide them by 3 to come up with an avg. i think at norwalk last year lee howie ran a 8:96 to win it with a turbo car i love wathing those races.
Don

[77TA]

Way to go Steve pretty good for a STREET Pontiac !! Sorry about my previous street car comment. Maybe a bigger NOS Kit will be in order. maybe a 400hp Fogger. Then when your buddies speed up a blower then a turbo etc.... I say that in response to Goatmans comment. I love heads up racing nothing more exciting but brackets allow for guys with not so deap pockets to have fun so thats cool too. I gotta ask do you really think a POntiac can hang with the best of the CHevy,Ford cars ? They have alot of technology and parts to work we don't. Steves car is one of the fastest Street Pontiacs I know of and it sounds like he's surrounded by cars almost a second faster !!!

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Depends on the class or rules. They can compete.

[Steve C.]

This is probably our last time, presume the 'faster' cars will get us.
Plus the next LP shootout is too close to the upcoming Pontiac Southern Nationals and we need to put the looser converter back in (and probably take off the nitrous). It was fun while it lasted and I accomplished what I wanted and that's to say the car ran in the 9's.
Bud- so far no full pass with the nitrous. The combination is not optimized, thus a slow et in relation to the mph (9.88/138).
With some R&D time we could probbly get the car to hook with the nitrous on, and with the proper converter and a better tire combination I think it would ET alot better.

[fasteddy]

Oh yes I know that when there is a special theme day and it includes the word Chevy, Mopar or Ford that the people flock to it. But what about when the "tour" moves to the next contracted strip? Where does the track operator turn for revenue? I love to watch heads up racing as much as anybody, but there are not enough of that type of hotrods to go around. When we had the Outlaw Street 10.5 inch tire events, our best turn out was 12 cars. four of them grenaded and oiled down the track. Track owner said "no more".

[johnta1]

What would the minimum weight be?
4000 lbs?
3800 lbs?
3600 lbs?
3000 lbs?
2500 lbs?
2000 lbs?

Real street tires,or 'street' wrinkle wall racing tires?

If you're having rules why not bracket race?
If you want to go fast you can.
Bracket racing you have to know how to cut a light,know you're car,how to dial you're car,be consistant,etc.

Heads up you just need more money than the other guy.
Why doesn't Paul Spotts have a car?
Because he's faster than you?

[Goatman]

FE, I could see how you could make that statement if this was the first year these guys did this, but its not. If they didn't make money, the tracks wouldn't have them back, plain and simple.

Didn't think you were that ignorant Johnta.

Truth be told, you need all the skills that a bracket "racer" needs and money and even more of both! Don't believe me, ask Tom Vaught. He's had significant experience on that "side of the coin".

Since you're obviously interested in NOT contributing, I won't get into what I feel the rules should be for a class that doesn't exist, mainly because most would rather cry about the rules than go fast.

[johnta1]

Just a little 'Devil's Advocate' there.

Seriously though,if you make rules for one thing or another you end up excluding some one else's vehicle.

An example: at Joliet they were going to have a Q8. But some of the slower cars didn't like it that a dragster could enter it! Whoa,if you're quick what does it matter what I race? This was in a bracket style too.

I want to go real fast without spending a fortune so I built my dragster.Now they want to exclude me because I'm too fast for them?

[Goatman]

1. Dragsters are a minority.

2. Plenty of classes already available for dragsters, just because they are mostly Chevy powered, don't be afraid.

3. A car has doors, a roof, and side panels and they are actually a challenge to run fast with.

[johnta1]

What does you're car run?
Also the weight?