[John V.]

The 779 trans was NOT used with the 3.55 rear axle.

In '64 & '65, the Wide Ratio M20 Muncie was the regular production option 4 spd.

There were two versions needed/used.

This owed to the fact that all Tempests (GTO included) used an 8 tooth Speedo Drive gear installed on the mainshaft internal to the trans assembly.

This trans was identified on the Manifest as the Code 77W trans.

Depending on the axle ratio and tire size, various EXTERNAL Speedo Driven gears were added at Final Assembly to achieve speedo accuracy. A 3.55 axle Tempest or GTO would have used the Code 77W 4 spd.

The EXCEPTION was when the 3.90 axle was special ordered with the regular production 4 spd.

In this case, PMD specified a 6 tooth Speedo Drive gear internal to the trans.

That meant that a specific trans was supplied by Muncie to PMD with a unique p/n for use with the 3.90 axle.

The 3.90 axle could be ordered with the 4 spd in any GTO and also any 326 HO application. Any Tempest model could be ordered with this combination.

This trans was identified on the Manifest as the Code 779 trans.

You did NOT order the Code 779 trans, you ordered the 4 spd trans on the regular Tempest Order Form by checking the appropriate box in both '64 & '65.

The choice between 77W and 779 was made by PMD based on whether the axle choice was 3.90 or not.

The '64 p/ns were:

9774825 for the Code 77W
9774826 for the Code 779

The '65 p/ns were:

9780800 for the Code 77W
9780938 for the Code 779

Around April of '64, PMD made the Close Ratio M21 available for the GTO.

It was a Special Equipment option choice.

This choice was carried over for the '65 GTO where it was one of the Special Equipment options listed on the '65 All Series Special Equipment Order Form.

Instead of ordering the 4 spd on the regular Tempest Order Form, you specified the Close Ratio by checking it on the ASSE Order Form.

The Sales Code for the option was Code 778 and it was also identified on the Manifest by Code 778.

The '64 p/n for it was 9777000.

The '65 p/n for it was 9780986.

But it was a limited production option choice.

You could NOT order it except for a GTO and ONLY with the Tripower. It required the 3.90 axle, which as with all 3.90 axle GTOs, also required the Metallic Brake option and Safe-T-Track. Other mandatory extra cost options were also required.

It was NOT offered for any Tempest and it was NOT offered for the 4 bbl GTO.

You did NOT need to order the Close Ratio trans in order to get the 3.90 axle.

This included the Tripower GTO and most '64 & '65 Tripower GTOs with 3.90 axle that I have come across were built with the Code 779 Wide Ratio M20.

Owing to the late release of the M21 for '64, it is extraordinarily rare that year, I have only documented one '64 Tripower GTO that was built with the Close Ratio Code 778 M21 trans.

It is slightly more common for '65 since it was available from the start of the year.

I'm also aware of a mag article written by Roger Huntington from '65 where he discusses the recommendations of Dick Jesse from Royal Pontiac on how to order a "hot" GTO. He goes into a good bit of detail about ordering the Close Ratio off the ASSE Order Form and the advantages of the Close Ratio gear set.

I'm pretty sure this article would have influenced a number of '65 GTO buyers to specify the Close Ratio trans.

I can't explain why a number of GTO buyers that seem to have expressed a desire to get the Close Ratio in '65 failed to get it. The Close Ratio was ordered on the same ASSE Order Form as the Metallic Brakes and the 3.90 axle choice so it is impossible to believe any Dealer was oblivious of the Form to use.

All I know for sure, if the GTO got built with the Code 779 trans, it is a Wide Ratio.

The p/n tag is useful to confirm the trans if the original tag is still attached to the side cover.

Keith has explained that Royal enlisted his dad to convert a number of Wide Ratio 4 spds to Close Ratio (his own '65 was built with the Code 778 as evidenced by the Billing History Card and the Build Sheet that he has).

But I am interested in how the factory built them.

All the above is what I have observed from actual trannies and documentation.

I am always interested in learning something new. But have never found an exception regarding the Code 779 trans to date.

Check for the p/n tag.

[tarheeltempest]

John V, thanks for setting me straight. I still continue to learn. You are indeed the expert and a living encyclopedia on this subject. I will be sure and get back with you concerning the side cover p/n. Thank you again. Fascinating information. This forum is the best.

[tarheeltempest]

Forgot to post the inspection sticker from the windshield.

[tarheeltempest]

And also the college parking permit sticker.

[dlloyd]

I missed the story. Where is it located

[Greg Reid]

Post #7 on page #1....Or maybe you mean the original thread. That's here- http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=746924

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I'm glad to learn about the Wide Ratio / 3.90 option factor too.
I knew it was possible in 64 - but didn't know it was possible again in 65 .

fwiw - Bruno runs a Wide Ratio with 3.90 in his modern day 69 Ram4 KillaKar by choice ... so it might be a certain advantage if you're quick-n-slick with 2nd.

Here is a visual specimen of a 3x2 4spd 3.55 with (W) Wide Ratio
This was another Black one - project car with wrong everything drivetrain - that sold on eBay not too long ago. Brought good money
Pontiac plant car - May built

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

...1986 POCI Convention in Greensboro. I had a 65 GTO, red with black vinyl top and red interior. Tri power and 4 speed, it took 2nd to a local guy who took first.

If it was a charcoal blue hardtop ... it was Tommy S.

Your car sounds like it was an eye-popper too.
Never seen that combo before.
In 1986 i was walking right on by 64's and 65's with barely a glance

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

If it was a charcoal blue hardtop ... it was Tommy S.

Your car sounds like it was an eye-popper too.
Never seen that combo before.
In 1986 i was walking right on by 64's and 65's with barely a glance

No, it wasn't Tommy's. It was Dan T.'s. He is still showing it, although it is not 'as delivered'.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

No, it wasn't Tommy's. It was Dan T.'s. He is still showing it, although it is not 'as delivered'.

Jerry did you ever meet or know Larry Redwine from High Point area NC ?
He wasn't a show car kinda car guy - but real deep into 65's back then.
He sold so much Pontiac stuff at the 86 convention he had to rent an armed guard and armored truck to carry his money home at the end of every day.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by tarheeltempest

And also the college parking permit sticker.

Hey Tarheel , have you cleaned a seat or polished a seat belt buckle yet ??
Give us something here man - its been almost a month !

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Jerry did you ever meet or know Larry Redwine from High Point area NC ?
He wasn't a show car kinda car guy - but real deep into 65's back then.
He sold so much Pontiac stuff at the 86 convention he had to rent an armed guard and armored truck to carry his money home at the end of every day.

I probably met him, but that's been a looong time ago. Bill Sykes was a good friend and into 64's and Larry Sprinkle was a big car guy. Both were from the tri cities area. I haven't seen them in years. I do catch up with Rocky Boyles in Norwalk occasionally.

[tarheeltempest]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Hey Tarheel , have you cleaned a seat or polished a seat belt buckle yet ??
Give us something here man - its been almost a month !

I've been quite busy with my car. Interior now presentable, although I still have more work to do. Gotta detail under the dash, pedals, replace e-brake handle that is broken, more chrome to be polished. But, I'm getting there. I can only upload two photos at a time. The first round will be before. The second, after.

[tarheeltempest]

Will have to pat the "after" photos from home. Technical problems.

[tarheeltempest]

Here's a few "after" pics.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Heck yeh man that really looks alive again !
extra ultra awesome

How does it feel now to sit behind that wheel ?
We know you're bound to sit there and daydream etc .. engine sounds and tire squeelings

65 GTO interior is the best one they ever did - no doubt

[Jerry H.]

Me likey!

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

We know you're bound to sit there and daydream etc .. engine sounds and tire squeelings

LOL.

K

[tarheeltempest]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Heck yeh man that really looks alive again !
extra ultra awesome

How does it feel now to sit behind that wheel ?
We know you're bound to sit there and daydream etc .. engine sounds and tire squeelings

65 GTO interior is the best one they ever did - no doubt

I have to admit that I have gone through the gears on a "dry run". Seriously though, I'm going to have the TI system rebuilt/refurbished and the carbs rebuilt before I try to crank her up.

[Chris65LeMans]

Lookin' good!