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#21
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.....and Go-go boots. But nothing wrong with the boots.
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The Following User Says Thank You to PAUL K For This Useful Post: | ||
#22
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If you want to use the non-adjustable sets, there are Mercedes keys that will work for you. They are available in 1,2,3,4 degree offsets. I posted part numbers in a couple other threads. Mr. Gasket still has some 1 and 2 degree keys available but double the cost of the Mercedes ones. The best were the Mopar direct Connection pack of 5 keys. They are long gone.
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The Following User Says Thank You to mgarblik For This Useful Post: | ||
#23
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All 3 chains on zero de-greed the same. The only issue with this whole thing is Rollermasters instructions, they are wrong. If your light was on you would have picked up that Cloyes does not offer a short Z chain for Pontiacs. Most know its the best roller chain. Gear drives, Pauls post about harmonics was useful. But the best gear drive, Milodon are not noisy at all. |
#24
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#25
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This was text to me
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Last edited by Gach; 08-06-2023 at 06:19 PM. |
#26
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I still have 2 of Mr Gasket off sets. I used to use long before the 9 key timing sets cam out.
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#27
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Harmonics...lol
This is the street section BTW. |
The Following User Says Thank You to firechicken For This Useful Post: | ||
#28
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"The best were the Mopar direct Connection pack of 5 keys. They are long gone."
.....and I buy (or used to until I quit building engines here a few years ago) every single one that I find on Ebay and have for many years. Periodically I do a search, from time to time they show up so I grab them. Got zinged pretty hard on the last one, $60. I still have it less one key and some misc keys left over from other sets I've bought and used keys from over the years.......
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
The Following User Says Thank You to Cliff R For This Useful Post: | ||
#29
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"Once again, I come back to the good, better, best scenario. There are roller timing sets I wouldn't.....etc, etc."
Excellent info on the top shelf double roller stuff. On the flip side of your post I have used wide Morse chain sets for over 45 years now without a single issues anyplace, at any power level. In SBC builds (thru 1986 blocks) I use the Melling 3-489 set which is 3/4" wide like the Pontiac V-8 set, The 3-499S set is 5/8" wide but I'd still use one of those before any roller type timing set. I actually prefer the early Cloyes with steel gears but they are difficult to obtain, the Melling is readily available and also marketed by SA Gear. Over all the years of building engines for my cars I've had ONE timing chain failure and that was in 2004 with a Rollmaster. It was also the only "double roller" timing set I've ever used on my own engine builds. My mentor was very specific and detailed about that part of the engine build so I followed his advice and SOB the very first time I went another direction it failed on me........FWIW......
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
#30
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Agreed..... Absolutely no use for a gear drive unless someone wants to listen to a constant whining noise.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PAUL K For This Useful Post: | ||
#31
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This is funny if I can inject a little humor. I hear this winding noise, I look up and see this Chevelle going by, I’m looking for the Blower, I’m like what hell was that. No blower. Later I’m at local parts store this kid standing there and the Chevelle goes by, kid says hey that’s Larry’s did you hear he got a gear drive, I’ll bet he’s going to make some power with that baby now. I just laughed
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#32
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This country is full of whining noise
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The Following User Says Thank You to slowbird For This Useful Post: | ||
#33
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I ended up using the Elgin/Morse chain set. It was the tightest set I had even though its not a short chain and my block has splayed caps.
The Rollemaster had 3/8" deflection, Cloyes had 1/4" deflection and the Elgin/Morse slightly less. I will end up using both the rollers someday. When I am fixed income geezer bracket racer........... Or I will buy more of those 35$ 3/4" wide link deals ! I do have a couple .008 short double roller chains only. USA made for 10 bucks on clearance a member PMed me about. Never mocked them up though. Not sure what all this noise talk is about using Milodon gear drives. I could not hear one in a Firebird at the track once and firechicken says his is silent. BTW, check out the burs on the ends of the key-ways on the Cloyes crank gear. Needs filed, deburd. The Rollermaster crank gear was clean. Even Cloyes needs tuned up. |
#34
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#35
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Noise is the only reason to use a gear drive. Any other reason, other than degrading performance can be accomplished in a better way....even the noise can be made a better way. There is not a good logical reason to use a gear drive other than personal preference. The Milodon set up by far is the best quality deal out there. It also costs a lot more than a timing chain set and takes a considerable amount of time and some machining to set up.....all to go backwards in technology sixty years. But if that's what gets your rocks off by all means do it. As of now it's still a free Country.
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#36
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: work in progress |
#37
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I used a Cam Correct devise with a Rollermaster chain on a couple late model Chevy circle track engines. I thought it as a real good part to correct timing chain slop. Those engines were rockets. Too bad the driver wasn't up to it.
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1979 Trans Am WS-6 .030 455 zero decked flat pistons 96 heads with SS valves 041 cam with Rhoads lifters 1.65 rockers RPM rods 800 Cliffs Q Jet on Holley Street Dominator ST-10 4 speed (3.42 first) w 2.73 rear gear __________________________________________________ _______________________________ 469th TFS Korat Thailand 1968-69 F-4E Muzzle 2 |
#38
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: work in progress |
#39
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I know the Milodon is expensive and a pain to set up. But, if you can make them quiet and they last far longer, longevity is something worthwhile. I have never messed with one but I would assume you can adjust the lash for wear. If you say harmonics is a thing against a gear drive I believe you. I would think at some point a high end engine builder has spun one up on a Spintron. What did they find ? It used to be said they cost you 1-2 horsepower. But if it lasts the lifetime of the engine that is not bad. Now a engine builder, I understand why they do not like them. very expensive and I bet customers don,t like paying the actual time it takes to set one up. Vs just putting a good chain on, degree it and be done with it. Gear drives are a losing deal for a engine builder. Getting one to make noise is just dumb. Never liked that noise. I remember the knuckleheads with their 300 HP small blocks in their 75 Camaros making all that racket who thought they were cool. |
#40
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Its in the correct location as in a Motors Manual (stock) But dot to dot you can not replicate the drawing in their instructions. Their drawing shows the key way too far to the left.
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