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#21
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+2 on tuning the AFB clones. I had a customer send me two "Marine Q-jets" that turned out to be Webber built AFB Marine clones. Instead of sending them back, which I typically would do if I didn't break them on one of my "hook shots" i decided to dive into them.
Right to start with they had the correct part numbers on them, and original to his twin 454 powered boat. However, when I checked them over closely they were NOT the same for jets, rods, IFR's, air bleeds, etc. So now the quandrum, which one do I copy to make them IDENTICAL units. Thankfully he had tagged them and noted that his fuel meters showed one fo them using considerably MORE fuel than the other, so I started there. I was able to obtain the same jets and metering rods, and "modify" everything else to make them identical twins. However, on my test engine they didn't run all that great, very rich at idle, and noticable hesitation and overrich condition right off idle thru transition. So I went into the parts catalog and bought multiple jet sizes and dual tapered metering rods for them and went to work. When I was done they were FLAWLESS, but I had several hundred dollars tied up in tuning components as mentioned above. The owner got them, and few months later gave me a call telling me that they were also flawless on his end and his fuel economy was a LOT better than it had ever been since he purchased the boat. Sadly we could have prepared two Marine Q-jets and done better, but his intakes had no provisions for divorced chokes and sourcing out Volvo Penta e-choke Marine Q-jets can be difficult and expensive......
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
The Following User Says Thank You to Cliff R For This Useful Post: | ||
#22
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Q-Jet all the way for me.
If I could put a Qjet on my Ford junk I would. A lot of years back when I did my first 455 I asked Cliff for some tips/tricks because I have been doing stock rebuilds on Q-Jets for a long time with great success but didnt have much knowledge of doing performance modifications to them. Cliff happily obliged and told me how to do some things which I did and my rebuild/ Modified Q-Jet ran flawlessly and out performed my box stock Holley in every way. |
#23
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Quote:
They also used TQ's on some of their 460's Jon
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"Good carburetion is fuelish hot air". "The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one given to you by your neighbor". If you truly believe that "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! Owner of The Carburetor Shop, LLC (of Missouri). Current caretaker of the remains of Stromberg Caburetor, and custodian of the existing Carter and Kingston carburetor drawings. |
#24
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I was/am having very good luck with the Brawler from Quickfuel. YMMV
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#25
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We seem to have deviated "slightly" from the original question (as we often do).
OP - many of us have suggested the Q-Jet. One reason is that it is a "spread-bore" design. By 1970 (well, 1972 for Chrysler products) ALL US producers of automobiles had adopted the spread-bore design for virtually ALL V-8 engines, because of the features I mentioned in my first post. Exceptions (square bore design) were used only on engines that the manufacturer knew had a good chance of being raced (street driveability of less concern) or trucks which would be on the primary side with lower vacuum than a passenger engine. Give some consideration to the reasons ALL of the car companies went to the spread bore design. Again, your car, your choice. I have a spread-bore on my own 350 Pontiac, a Carter TQ, and I have 150,000 carbs to choose from (none of which are imitations); so really believe in what I have recommended to you. Jon
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"Good carburetion is fuelish hot air". "The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one given to you by your neighbor". If you truly believe that "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! Owner of The Carburetor Shop, LLC (of Missouri). Current caretaker of the remains of Stromberg Caburetor, and custodian of the existing Carter and Kingston carburetor drawings. |
The Following User Says Thank You to carbking For This Useful Post: | ||
#26
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Quote:
Jeff
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Carburetor building & modification services Servicing the Pontiac community over 25 years |
#27
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"Ford used some Q-Jets in 1970 and 1971 on the 429."
Those were and are EXCELLENT units. A factory "hot rod" carb right off the bench. The intake Ford made for them was also a really nice part, with wide plenum areas and very well design runners for effectively feed the 429CJ engines. One can learn a LOT from looking at what the factory did on their "high performance" Quadrajet carburetors. The Pontiac Ram Air, HO, Super Duty, Buick Stage 1, 1969 Chevy 350/350hp, and a few others fall into that catagory........
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
The Following User Says Thank You to Cliff R For This Useful Post: | ||
#28
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"Cliff - tell us how you really feel "
Jon If you haven't noticed I'm quick these days to talk bad about things, which at times may include certain parts or the work of others. Back when I was building carburetors I didn't feel right about bad mouthing anything where it looked like it might be competition, or trying to steer work in my direction, etc. These days I just might tell you EXACTLY what I think about something. I also have bad cases of CRS, and even worse cases of DGS.....that's "Can't Remember Sh*t" and "Don't Give a Sh%t". With all that going on I'm pretty much smiling all the time these days!........LOL.....
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cliff R For This Useful Post: | ||
#29
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On a more serious note, when it comes to carburetors the very best carb is going to be the one you spent enough time with to dial it in EXACTLY for your application. It still makes sense to spend your hard earned money in the right places, so there are options out there that just aren't that great, and other options that aren't worth two squirts of duck poop no matter how much effort you put into them.
No big secret that I absolutely HATE the ever popular Edelbrock AFB clones. Not because you can't findle around with one and get it pretty well dialed in for what you are doing. It will start well and move your car effectively from point A to point B. I hate them because there is not adjustment for the opening rate of the secondary air flaps. So IF they hesitate, stumble, bog, backfire or puke all over themselves going quickly to full throttle there is nothing you are going to be able to do about it. There is also some "cobbling" involved with installing them on some set-ups. I've had fuel line hitting the bottom of the air cleaner base issues, and difficulty running a hard fuel line to them as they are really wide in and the fuel inlet is in the left rear. Otherwise pretty easy to get dialed in if you don't mind giving Edelbrock another pay check for the tuning kit(s). I've also ran the gauntlet with the Holley Street Avengers and not fond of those at all. They have several fundamental issues which I'll not dive into here, and just not very well made. I've had them come in here delaminating, or basically flaking off internals that are in contact with this new fuel. For sure a notch better than some of Holleys bottom of the barrel work, but certainly not even close to the HP line up. It also appears that Edelbrock now has developed and is pushing another Holley "clone". At a glance they did their homework and addressed every area that needs attention, and put an removeable bleed at every location. Time will tell how they will sort out and fall into the market, but for sure I'd look at those WAY before the shiny Holley cheap offerings.........FWIW.....
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
#30
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Its a chevy carburetor
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#31
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Oh, I thought you showed me a BOP with the intake you had
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Carburetor building & modification services Servicing the Pontiac community over 25 years |
#32
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Quote:
The vast majority of the Holley Dominator 3 circuit carbs over the years were converted BACK to 2 circuit carbs Holley Dominator carbs and went quicker on the track after the Modification. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#33
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I installed a edelbrock intake and a 600 performer carb, it runs good and seams to have woke up the engine.
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#34
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Quote:
It is your car, and if you are happy, that is all that really matters! Jon
__________________
"Good carburetion is fuelish hot air". "The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one given to you by your neighbor". If you truly believe that "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! Owner of The Carburetor Shop, LLC (of Missouri). Current caretaker of the remains of Stromberg Caburetor, and custodian of the existing Carter and Kingston carburetor drawings. |
The Following User Says Thank You to carbking For This Useful Post: | ||
#35
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My only advice is to check and double check the credentials of any so called "expert" if you have anyone rebuild one for you. I am in a 4 month ordeal trying to get my quadrajet back from a guy. Also that quadrajet is replacing a Edelbrock 750 cfm , my buddy has almost the same motor/tranny setup and is always getting better fuel economy with his QuadraJet then I am. And his car runs hard with the QJ. if your interested in an Edelbrock I have one I will sell if I ever get my QJ back.
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Let's make welfare as hard to get as Veterans benefits! |
#36
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Mopar even used em on their police 318`s and the 360 truck engines before they went to the Magnum engine.
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#37
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Edelbrock's AVS2 also comes in a spreadbore configuration (1912/1913 Series).
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Triple Black 1971 GTO |
#38
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Looks like squarebore to me. https://www.edelbrock.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=1912 |
#39
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Same square flange dual bolt pattern crap they've been pushing for decades. Sales were never what Edelbrock wanted on the AVS versions even though they have a fighting chance of working when you go quickly to full throttle. The poor sales were only because of the nearly double price point compared to their AFB clones. That fact cause the demise of the excellent run of Q-jets they made for a few years. Who's going to pay over $500 for an Edelbrock 1910 850cfm Q-jet when you can buy two of their POS AFB clones and still have some money left over for a Big Mac and a Coke? To me this indicates how cheap the majority of hobbyists and enthusiasts are when it comes to this sort of thing.......IMHO......
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
The Following User Says Thank You to Cliff R For This Useful Post: | ||
#40
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The OP made a good choice with that 600 cfm carb. That can fill the needs of up to 380 Hp motor very well.
If you want few more top end HP add a K&N sub stack and even with a 600 cfm carb you should be running a open 3 & 14 air cleaner. You may need to go to fatter secondary jets with the sub stack.
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I do stuff for reasons. |
The Following User Says Thank You to 25stevem For This Useful Post: | ||
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