[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Slowbird,
Just because a belt has not been used to turn a camshaft does not mean that it does not a have long and prove history in industrial use where it may have handled must great loads.

Stan

Ok, I give their new belt is more proven and its better/stronger than BOP's belt which hasnt had a failure.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Ok, I give their new belt is more proven and its better/stronger than BOP's belt which hasnt had a failure.

Atta boy...theres no use. They think it and its as good as gold...even better.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Ok, I give their new belt is more proven and its better/stronger than BOP's belt which hasnt had a failure.

Slowbird,
Please note that nowhere did I say that there were any problems with the BOP's belt or another part of that system.

Stan

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Not without him or GG buying a custom tall deck BOP belt drive set-up from Wade between now and Norwalk.

Tom V.

Think we have had this discussion before.

1) Wade (BOP) and Wade's Engineer (Mark) report that the BOP Belt Drive system has been extremely reliable. As mentioned, there are quite a few BOP systems out there in use currently. To say that a unproven Belt Drive set-up is better is premature.

2) Anyone can copy anything. The deal is if you copy Gates belt design material or tooth profile hobbed into the drive and driven gear, Gates and their lawyers will get very angry with you. Jesel and BOP have an agreement with Gates regarding their Belt Drive systems.

3) Belts for Industrial equipment DO have very high load capabilities. Most Industrial belts though ARE NOT designed for HIGH RPM use. High RPM meaning 7000+ rpm.
If you want to win a race you had better be spinning the engine 7000+ rpm to have a chance of winning.

4) So you need to find a 1" belt that is the right length, the right tooth profile, and the right material to survive in a racing application, not an industrial rpm application.
Good Luck and I hope you get it figured out and installed by Norwalk.

5)
a) If the New Belt Drive uses a 1" wide belt of the same material as the BOP design, then it is a copy because Jesel and BOP are the only ones with that agreement with Gates.

b) If the New Belt Drive uses the same tooth count for the drive and driven gears then it is a copy.

c) If the New Belt Drive uses the same tooth profile as the BOP then it is a copy.

So the point is, ANYONE can COPY anything. Saying that the COPY is better than the Original (without ANY track time to back it up) sounds like a certain head deal gone bad from an over-enthusiastic group from the peanut gallery.

Just saying.

Tom V.

ps I was told that Wade hurt his back and might be out of commission for a while.
Prayers to Wade and his family.

[R 70 Judge]

Since we are on the subject... Are belt drives worth any measurable horsepower or is the benefit more or less reduced valvetrain harmonics?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

Since we are on the subject... Are belt drives worth any measurable horsepower or is the benefit more or less reduced valvetrain harmonics?

People like Grumpy Jenkins felt there was which is why he ran a Nylon Gear set-up in his Pro Stock Vega years ago. Grumpy did stuff for a reason.

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

Again, I really hope they get the engine/car together so that Jack, Jeff, Mike, and the rest of the ECM guys can skull drag their stuff down the track at Norwalk this August.

Tom V.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Ok, I give their new belt is more proven and its better/stronger than BOP's belt which hasnt had a failure.

No dig, just wanting info.
So who else is currently running this different manufacture belt system to be proven stronger and better?
Is it available to the public?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

Since we are on the subject... Are belt drives worth any measurable horsepower or is the benefit more or less reduced valvetrain harmonics?

Measurable? Only Jenkins would have known the answer to that deal.

Reduced Valvetrain harmonics? Would be high on my list as a possible reason.

Tom V.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

Since we are on the subject... Are belt drives worth any measurable horsepower or is the benefit more or less reduced valvetrain harmonics?

Ease of advancing/retarding the cam is a big plus to me. Good hp gains can be found there that most never see because of the work involved to do it normally.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Reduced Valvetrain harmonics? Would be high on my list as a possible reason.

Tom V.

That would be the main benefit in my opinion.

[BruceWilkie]

1st off... Its NOT a 1" belt! Its a wider stronger belt used on certain non Pontiac applications... It may be different length than a BOP spec'd belt.

It may or may not be available for production or for those needing a replacement for their tall deck.

Dont know if their are production plans for standard deck with similar width belt.

This one is for the IA tall deck Bill is putting together.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Again, I really hope they get the engine/car together so that Jack, Jeff, Mike, and the rest of the ECM guys can skull drag their stuff down the track at Norwalk this August.

Tom V.

My junk is coming along nicely. Gaby should have everything by early March then a week to assemble then dyno.

King Kinslers ride is going to be a little hotter come this year also. If he makes it to Norwalk he will be hard to beat for a lot of people.

[Daniel Barton]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

He didn't say that. You need to improve your reading skills. That comment of yours is what starts stuff up here. And, no, I don't have a dog in this fight. I use Wade's belt drive and it performs flawlessly.

Jim

Not everyone can put up such a helpful and courteous post like you have here, if he needs to work on his reading skills you most certainly should put in the same amount of time working on your people skills!

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Think we have had this discussion before.

1) Wade (BOP) and Wade's Engineer (Mark) report that the BOP Belt Drive system has been extremely reliable. As mentioned, there are quite a few BOP systems out there in use currently. To say that a unproven Belt Drive set-up is better is premature.

2) Anyone can copy anything. The deal is if you copy Gates belt design material or tooth profile hobbed into the drive and driven gear, Gates and their lawyers will get very angry with you. Jesel and BOP have an agreement with Gates regarding their Belt Drive systems.

3) Belts for Industrial equipment DO have very high load capabilities. Most Industrial belts though ARE NOT designed for HIGH RPM use. High RPM meaning 7000+ rpm.
If you want to win a race you had better be spinning the engine 7000+ rpm to have a chance of winning.

4) So you need to find a 1" belt that is the right length, the right tooth profile, and the right material to survive in a racing application, not an industrial rpm application.
Good Luck and I hope you get it figured out and installed by Norwalk.

5)
a) If the New Belt Drive uses a 1" wide belt of the same material as the BOP design, then it is a copy because Jesel and BOP are the only ones with that agreement with Gates.

b) If the New Belt Drive uses the same tooth count for the drive and driven gears then it is a copy.

c) If the New Belt Drive uses the same tooth profile as the BOP then it is a copy.

So the point is, ANYONE can COPY anything. Saying that the COPY is better than the Original (without ANY track time to back it up) sounds like a certain head deal gone bad from an over-enthusiastic group from the peanut gallery.

Just saying.

Tom V.

ps I was told that Wade hurt his back and might be out of commission for a while.
Prayers to Wade and his family.

i've been looking at Gates Belt & Hub data for a desing at work : Not sure why there are all kinds of warnings for belts running faster than 5000 rpm with 50 HP.

Harmonic reduction: i really like the Rattler theory for converting harmonic Accelerations (combustion) into power for use on the Compression strokes. excellent for any constant RPM or near constant RPM like a high stall converter car. Not sure if Rattler is excellent for a 3-speed Stickcar that has to wind-out RPM for accelleration.

[Tom Vaught]

Well EVERYONE should be happy that Bill has his belt drive deal all figured out!

Sounded like he still was not going to show up though. We can only hope he does.

It sounds like King Kinsler and Jack should be ready. Brian with his stuff might be the only show with a chance. Unless Brian (Slowbird) makes a trip too. Would love to see his car run. Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

i've been looking at Gates Belt & Hub data for a desing at work : Not sure why there are all kinds of warnings for belts running faster than 5000 rpm with 50 HP.

Harmonic reduction: i really like the Rattler theory. converts harmonic Accelerations into power for the compression strokes.

Well, HIS, you have something there for sure. "warnings for belts running faster than 5000 rpm with 50 HP" Someone can make a statement and it will not mean much. Read it out of the EXPERTS book and it takes a brave man to buck those odds. But what do I know. PS The Belt that Jesel and BOP use is the best in the game from Gates, according to BOP.

Tom V.

[mike leech]

I'll Be in assembly by the 1st week of march...dyno, then hopefully testing when the tracks open...

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Well, HIS, you have something there for sure. "warnings for belts running faster than 5000 rpm with 50 HP" Someone can make a statement and it will not mean much. Read it out of the EXPERTS book and it takes a brave man to buck those odds. But what do I know. PS The Belt that Jesel and BOP use is the best in the game from Gates, according to BOP.

Tom V.

Yes tom, but better/best is such a subjective term for some. If its really liked its the same as better. Or so it seems.

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by Daniel Barton

Not everyone can put up such a helpful and courteous post like you have here, if he needs to work on his reading skills you most certainly should put in the same amount of time working on your people skills!

......he said sarcastically.

Jim