[455dan]

Those Guys are nuts.

Just found it interesting they are also locals.


I have had several Grand Cherokees, Wagoneer's, Jeep Comando's, FJ - 40, International Scout, and still have a J 10 Honcho.
I even stuffed a Pontiac 462 in one of the Commando's.
Currently looking for a "decent and fairly priced' Wrangler for my granddaughter.
Yeah not going to take my 3000 mile Y off road. Grind Hard bought the car as a total/ salvage . I would take my Cummins powered 4x4 Ram off road first.

[455dan]

Originally Posted by KS circutguy

Look at the prices of the used Tesla's...WOW
https://www.cars.com/shopping/tesla-model_3-2022/

For some living in California they can get a Model 3 out of inventory for Under $14000 Brand New.
Lots of incentives and a few hoops to jump through though.

https://youtu.be/NNRuonqnsRo?t=145

[Tenney]

LowRiders ...

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 455dan

For some living in California they can get a Model 3 out of inventory for Under $14000 Brand New.
Lots of incentives and a few hoops to jump through though.

https://youtu.be/NNRuonqnsRo?t=145

How much are CA and US taxpayers paying to get someone that Tesla?

If they were worth having, you wouldn't need government incentives to get people to buy them.

And part of the reason for the $14,000 net price is the fact that Tesla has so much overstock they are discounting them on top of the government incentives.

I believe in a free market economy. I don't understand why I should have to pay for someone else's new car or for their charging infrastructure as is currently happening.

As a commuter car for those in the metro areas an EV makes sense for some people.

Where and how I live, work and play an EV makes no sense for my needs at this time. Maybe in the future, but not now.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 455dan

Model Y is the second best selling vehicle in the USA "so far" for 2023.

Really?

The model Y is in a distant 4th place with 190,500 units reported by Car & Driver article dated July 7, 2023.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g4...ing-cars-2023/

Ram PU - 223,049

Silverado PU - 264,070

F-150 PU - 382,893

As to 99% increase - Tesla sold 108,000 Model Y's between January 1 - June 30th in 2022. Do you want to double check your math?

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Here's a test to see if your area is ready for electric cars. Ask Seri on your phone or do a Google search for the following, population of your County and how many cell phone charinging stations are available.

Currently population of Knox County Ohio: 62,897

Current number of public charging stations: 6

I don't think we're quite there yet!.......LOL.....

As an addendum to this thought....

Tesla has the best 'network' of charging stations in the US. I don't think anyone will argue that point.

But it still is severely lacking in many parts of the country.

In CA, Tesla has 366 Supercharger stations. NY has 82. TX has 128. MN has 25.

Picking just one oil brand that sells Top Tier Fuel (Shell) here are the numbers:

CA - 1164

NY - 292

TX - 1548

MN - 72

The thing is with gas stations, as long as they are selling Top Tier fuel, it's all pretty much the same fuel.

Different areas will have more of one brand then another, but even in CA with the most Superchargers, Shell by itself has over 3 times as many locations (Chevron has 1846). In TX, Shell's 1548 stations has over 12 times as many.

I live in Rochester, MN and a regional convenience store chain called Kwik Trip (Top Tier fuel) is where I go frequently. They are extremely clean, have very friendly employees and good prices. They have over 150 locations in MN vs 25 Tesla Supercharger locations. In the Rochester city limits they have 15 locations vs 1 Tesla Supercharger location.

I enjoy going to the dirt track races at Deer Creek Speedway south of Rochester, MN. I literally drive right by 6 Kwik Trip stations on my way to or from the speedway. I never pass an EV charger (of any kind) location at all on that 30 minute drive.

This is just one of the reasons that an EV is not a desirable option for me.

[Scarebird]

https://www.reuters.com/investigates...tteries-range/

"About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can
drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters. The automaker last year became so inundated with driving-range complaints that it created a special team to cancel owners’ service appointments."

Don't see as many "stans" as you used to...

[455dan]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Really?

The model Y is in a distant 4th place with 190,500 units reported by Car & Driver article dated July 7, 2023.

By their own admission estimated...

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g4...ing-cars-2023/

Ram PU - 223,049

Silverado PU - 264,070

F-150 PU - 382,893

As to 99% increase - Tesla sold 108,000 Model Y's between January 1 - June 30th in 2022. Do you want to double check your math?

I said REGISTRATIONS... from jalopnik
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-doubled-n...the-1850542661


"The biggest winner among the four pillars was the Model Y, for which registrations increased a whopping 99 percent."




as the best selling non truck vehicles in the USA .
My oversight
I should have Also included that instead of vehicle in both places. Yep I misquoted that.

[The Champ]

455dan

The jalopnik link is only for the first quarter, so old info.

I used current info that included the second quarter. Why use old data to try and make your case when current data is available?

As to the rapid rise of the Model Y sales (sales and registrations are basically the same thing), it's come at a cost of sales of the Model X (the other 3 row EV Tesla produces). As recently as 2020 Tesla sold over 4200 Model X's in one month. Despite more people buying EV's than ever, the Model X sold less than 2000 units in June. The increase in Model Y sales is also predicated on massive discounts and government incentives. ICE vehicles were sold without those benefits.

You even boasted about the massive discounts and incentives when you referenced the $14,000 Model 3....

I'd get excited if it was truly free market sales, not government subsidized sales.

[455dan]

Originally Posted by The Champ

455dan

The jalopnik link is only for the first quarter, so old info.

I used current info that included the second quarter. Why use old data to try and make your case when current data is available?

As to the rapid rise of the Model Y sales (sales and registrations are basically the same thing), it's come at a cost of sales of the Model X (the other 3 row EV Tesla produces). As recently as 2020 Tesla sold over 4200 Model X's in one month. Despite more people buying EV's than ever, the Model X sold less than 2000 units in June. The increase in Model Y sales is also predicated on massive discounts and government incentives. ICE vehicles were sold without those benefits.

You even boasted about the massive discounts and incentives when you referenced the $14,000 Model 3....

I'd get excited if it was truly free market sales, not government subsidized sales.

Well I am not really for subsidies either. I did take advantage of Tesla's price drop.
If you want truly free markets in ten years you will have more chinese cars like
say Buick Envisions than US built cars like most Tesla's


Buying a new Tesla S, X, 3 or Y Long Range or Performance supports American made and Designed vehicles and also those American workers.

The Y Performance is a very handy hatchback to have for hauling groceries, horse feed pretty much anything that does not require a truck.

It also handles Very much like a second gen Trans Am right up to the point the tires break loose. Then it feels heavy and a bit outa sorts. Virtually no body roll even faster ratio steering and even has a track mode which may be fun to try.


I have no intention of getting rid of my other gas and diesel vehicles which are by far in the majority.
The Y Performance so far (to me) is a Comfortable, Safe, Good High performing New car- especially for a versatile hatchback.

[kingbuzzo]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/07/27/...software-team/

[b-man]

Thanks to everyone who turned this thread into a political squabble.

[scott70]

Bottom line,,,if you want a EV go buy one. If you don't want one,,don't. The price point which some people complain about isn't a main concern to me. If I wanted a EV I'd go buy one. But I don't and I won't. Like others have said,,where I live it makes no sense and winter months would be a nightmare ,,,not to mention a EV truck would be even a worse choice.

[Tenney]

Reinstalled some aero ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0s41Jd1bA4

[Vid]

I recently rented a Model Y when visiting my 92 year old mom in Tennessee. Hertz was pushing them for about the same price as a Chevy Spark so of course I tried the Tesla.

Here are my takeaways:
1. The minute I sat in the car, it just felt like this is the future of what a car is going to be.
2. Yeah, they’re quick alright.
2 a: Quick, but weirdly not much fun without all the smoke and noise of a V8.
3. Where I live in Reno, NV, there are Tesla supercharging stations absolutely everywhere. Tennessee, not so much. There’s like two in the whole state, lol. Luckily my fancy hotel had a 3rd party charging station by a company called ChargePoint.
4. Learning how to charge it for the first time and having to download the ChargePoint app to do so was a PITA. There’s a small metal tab on the charge port of the car that prevents you from putting the charger in, or taking it out. You cannot put the charging cable in or out without first consulting with the almighty dashboard screen first. I had no idea that I had to consult the screen first and spent 20 minutes cursing the plug and wishing I’d rented the Spark. At 11:30pm in the pouring rain after traveling for 15 hours, this is not a fun experience. Oh, and did I mention finding an adapter that was stashed in the trunk. However, once you know about these things and you have the app set up, it’s a piece of cake.
5. Hearing my mom scream and laugh, and watching her hat fly off (with the windows CLOSED mind you) when I floored it was worth the price of admission.
6. Would I rent one again, or even consider buying one? Absolutely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[455dan]

If you do rent another and if Hertz eventually does start stocking/renting the performance models maybe try one.
The 3 and Y Performance models are quite a bit quicker- especially out of the hole.

I posted up Good things about the Y .


Here are some bad things.

Still wish it had a center display.
The seats are comfortable to me , Not so much for the wife. Had to buy seat cushions so the seat (She says the passenger and rear seats are far to firm and with the sports suspension exacerbates the issue on long drives.
Does not seem comfortable for her.

One of the cushions - if used will not turn on the air bags for the passenger. Not Good.

The vision system that judges distances for parking are really flawed and inaccurate.
I do not trust it to not have the car ding the front bumper.
The ap that tracks energy use does not track losses and use from the power company. It does show what actually makes it into the battery

Winter will be interesting on longer trips and I would not be surprised to see a full 30 % shortfall of Tesla's advertised range. So maybe 200 of the 300 miles they advertise.

My car came out of Fremont, The same Fremont that produced most of the GTO's I had over the years actually like that.
There were two defects when closing the hood the T emblem area distorts. I could tell Tesla tried to adjust the hood since they had added paint to the hood nuts. My car also had a small dimple in the roof rail.

No way I would trust a Tesla service center to "fix" a paint issue n a multi coat pearl paint.
Readjusted the hood myself and just let the small dimple go. Pretty sure that was the right decision since there have been some real horror stories about being picky and then the service center making things much worse.
My car did have very good panel alignment, nicely laid on paint, with no orange peal or metallic mottling of any kind, also no squeaks or rattles or other defects.

Updates can be a step backward. One caused phantom braking when pine tree shadows were across the road. Wipers that turned on on a clear day. Both of those were only when the auto steer/ cruise were engaged.
As a final point my wife says she will never even drive the car, let alone would ever want to own one. It makes her nervous and likes standard controls for things like headlights heater ac controls or the nav. cant argue those points either.
I have also used foul language at the car while driving at certain times.

ps. Sorry if my comments were a cause of near thread closure- will try to refrain from anything political

[KS circutguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ9-mW-cmdE
Wow

[KS circutguy]

EV manufacturers might try to deny there's a problem
But it can't be long before insurance companies stop
insuring them.

[kingbuzzo]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/08/01/...g-nhtsa-probe/

[KS circutguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIpXkQhq1ps
Jennifer Ruotolo is busy packing up her life after bringing home a 2023 Mercedes Benz EQE350+. Her Nocatee home was destroyed in a fire sparked by the electric car. It was a loaner from Mercedes Benz while her personal car was getting serviced.