[TedRamAirII]

If you listen to your video with the #1 Timing light slow motion, seems like "sometimes" you can hear a noise between timing light flashes, but not as loud as the noise when the light hits. See what you think. As for the noise? Wrist Pin?

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by steve25

It would be nice if it where a Exh leak , but sound of a Exh leak would stop when you pull the plug wires like you did!

I hunted a clack clack clack on a tri-power engine many years ago. It had factory exhaust manifolds and duals out the back. Pulled plug wires one at a time with little to no change in the noise. Idled the engine up high and drizzled transmission fluid down each carb throat. Imediately got smoke coming out at the exhaust cross-over.

I hope it's something that simple with Sam's engine. Just maybe it got ran long enough with the bolts loose that the gasket was damaged. Might even explain why it came back louder.

Clay

[chiphead]

Did 400s and 455s use different windage trays? Why/how would there be a windage tray contact issue on a stock-stroke, stock rod motor using a factory tray?

1.5 or 1.65 rockers?

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by glhs#116

I had some earlier. Pretty sure I don't have any now. So far only the windage tray theory seems to match all the observed facts...

Well, almost all of them. There's still the little issue of the sound seeming to occur at cam speed (e.g. every other rotation) as per the slo-mo video with the timing light. On the other hand, the video of the other guy that had a windage tray issue sounds to me like about the same frequency at idle. His is a little faster. But I think his idle speed is a little faster.

Sam

His was hitting in 2 or 3 spots.

[glhs#116]

Well, I just did the 500 mile oil change. There was some material in the oil filter. For me that was a little inconclusive since the block and heads never got clinically cleaned (like hot tanked) just cleaned out by me. But still, there was a small amount of magnetic crumbs that make me a little nervous. I'm not sure how much is normal to see on first 500 mile change (following the 20 minute "cam break-in" change).

Inside of filter after slowly pouring out most of the oil


Close up of the magnetic bits. Hairs because I dabbed it all carefully with a rag so the pieces were more visible


Just a perspective shot to show how much of a close-up the previous shot was


With all that I can report the engine remains strong and smooth but the tick persists. Did a little scoping last night with a rubber hose and was pretty much able to rule out timing cover area as a source. It's quiet from the valve covers until you are pretty much directly over the pushrod holes. It's pretty loud and clear from anywhere on the valley pan. It's pretty quiet from directly on the front of the oil pan. I'm feeling like all signs point to a cam lobe.

What do you think?

Sam

[steve25]

I would pull the Intake and valley pan to be able to roll the motor over and at least check out the base circle of each Cam lobe.
If the ware / brake in pattern seen extends over more then 1/2 the width of the base circle then something's up !

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by steve25

I would pull the Intake and valley pan to be able to roll the motor over and at least check out the base circle of each Cam lobe.
If the ware / brake in pattern seen extends over more then 1/2 the width of the base circle then something's up !

Just put in my order. I've got a timing cover gasket set coming so that I can actually take that off and still be able to put it back on. I've also got a cam and set of lifters coming in case I need it. I hate being so far from anywhere I can get stuff.

I'll probably try this weekend just taking the intake and valley pan off to take a look as you suggest. I'm sure the intake gaskets will be OK for a second use since they are the nice thick ones. Also, I contact cemented the valley pan gasket on so I bet I can re-use it as well. Just need to drain a little coolant.

But it's going to be nasty. 110 degrees today and that's with 50% humidity raising up to 75% in the evening.

[steve25]

Sweat city there my friend!
We on the east coast here just got done with 5 days of the heat index above 100 so I know what your dealing with!
I hope that if it is just a valve train issue that may be its simple like the plunger clip in one of the lifters had popped out which would be plain to see!
If by sad chance you need to pack in a new Cam and lifters be sure to check how they fit in the bore's .
The lifters Bores at the rear of the motor tend to ware more as the spinning crank tends to push all the oil windage up to the front of the motor.

[chiphead]

When I lost 3 lobes off my XE274 cam, I didn't have round pieces like that. I had thin, hard, sharp slivers embedded in the pleats. Lots of it. Anything like that in the filter pleats?

Rod nut digging out the windage tray? Self-destructing rocker arm? How did you cut open the filter?

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by chiphead

When I lost 3 lobes off my XE274 cam, I didn't have round pieces like that. I had thin, hard, sharp slivers embedded in the pleats. Lots of it. Anything like that in the filter pleats?

Rod nut digging out the windage tray? Self-destructing rocker arm? How did you cut open the filter?

That's encouraging.

No, the pleats looked pretty empty of anything much. And most of what was on the bottom of the filter wasn't attracted to the magnet. I used a filter cutter that's basically like a huge tube cutter. A round sharp wheel. I don't think it should make any dust.

I'll see if I can look in the valley this weekend and see what I can see.

Sam

[glhs#116]

OK. So heat and humidity be damned I went into the valley. I looked carefully at the cam and lifters and bumped it over a few times to see it from different angles. The lifters are all intact with their clips, the pushrods all look good. Hard to see the wear pattern on the cam because it hasn't run long (about 500 miles) so only really visible on the tips. I really didn't see anything that alarmed me but I'm just throwing this out to other eyes.

The operating room


From passenger side


Drivers side


Front


Sam

[dataway]

Personally I am just amazed at your perseverance. That engine should jump out of the car and roll over for you after all the work you have put into it

[steve25]

How does the Dizzy gear look at the back of the block and just for fun how do the push rod ends look and the rockers?
One thing to check with the rocker balls is if they are fractured.
If you look at the flat side of each ball there should be no lines radiating out from the stud hole.

Other wise I am not seing anything with the Cam and lifters , but of course being there and looking at a picture are two different things!

As a last Cam/ lifter check when you get it back together if you pull the rocker covers with the motor warmed up , mark the tops of the push Rods and then make up a cardboard shroud and start the motor and view the push Rods.
If the lobes are good the push rod will spin each time the valve opens and closes.
Slower spinning push Rods then others are a sign of a south going Cam lobe.

Also,are you using the stock valley pan bolts, as longer ones can pinch the Cam bearings as those bolt holes go right into the Cam Bore!

[glhs#116]

Just a reminder of what this all sounds like. This is the tick on a cold start with a low idle. Probably the best way to hear it really loud in a video

https://youtu.be/MzjB1nxGOwY

And this is warmed up and revved from inside. In person you can still hear the tick pretty clearly but I notice that it doesn't come over on the video so much

https://youtu.be/IDS5TlHY_0U

So, I'm sort of thinking and hoping this should actually be a bad lifter. But is that the right sound?

Sam

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by steve25

How does the Dizzy gear look at the back of the block and just for fun how do the push rod ends look and the rockers?
One thing to check with the rocker balls is if they are fractured.
If you look at the flat side of each ball there should be no lines radiating out from the stud hole.

Other wise I am not seing anything with the Cam and lifters , but of course being there and looking at a picture are two different things!

As a last Cam/ lifter check when you get it back together if you pull the rocker covers with the motor warmed up , mark the tops of the push Rods and then make up a cardboard shroud and start the motor and view the push Rods.
If the lobes are good the push rod will spin each time the valve opens and closes.
Slower spinning push Rods then others are a sign of a south going Cam lobe.

Also,are you using the stock valley pan bolts, as longer ones can pinch the Cam bearings as those bolt holes go right into the Cam Bore!

Steve,

I didn't take out rockers or distributor this time around. It's surprising how economically you need to work in this kind of heat and humidity. Probably took more than five hours just doing the little work I did.

But as for the distributor gear:
1. I did swap a new iron gear (with big roll pin hole) for the used one I started with a few weeks back. Nothing looked bad
2. I did note (and you can see in the pics) that the cam is in position and not slid forwards or back

No rocker balls, I have Harland Sharps. They are about thirteen years old now but seem fine and look good. The pushrods are brand new because the smaller base circle cam meant a longer pushrod was called for. They are high quality one piece hardened pushrods. New guide plates too since one of the stock ones was damaged.

I used the stock valley pan bolts and I have to say the build up to 15ft/lbs on those bolts is the most tense part of the operation because I have easily seen with my own eyes now how if the bolt goes too far in it will hit the cam bearing. Stock bolt, stock washers, stock valley pan.

There's no way you could have a PCV valve be that loud, could you? Yeah, I know, that's really grasping at straws...

Passenger side


Drivers side (they are less even because I bumped the motor over a few times so the lifters are more pumped up)


Sam

[Holeshot71]

After listening to the last videos you posted and looking at those intake manifold gaskets I would look real close for an exhaust leak at the the crossover.

[torqhead]

Sam,
You've got some mad skills with the camera, is there a way you can get a few pics of the rest of the cam as we can't see all of it in the current ones you provided? Aim the camera so it can see up underneath the block casting that covers some of the lobes.

I don't recall if you used locktite on the cam retainer bolts up front, with all your detail I'm guessing you did. I saw a 400 that had a loose cam retainer and allowed the cam to shift just enough causing a lobe to just nick the block when it shifted back and forth making a noise like what yours sounds like. If it shifts too far needless to say there will be a lot bigger problems!

If you have a battery charger/booster, plug your fuel line off with a clamp and have someone just use the starter to spin it faster while you have your head down in there, you might see something. You should be able to get away with 5-10 seconds at a time without killing your starter so you can get a good view, hell record it!!! lol

[torqhead]

Originally Posted by Holeshot71

After listening to the last videos you posted and looking at those intake manifold gaskets I would look real close for an exhaust leak at the the crossover.

What he said, looking at the one shot you have that includes the crossover on the drivers side you can see black soot like possibly exhaust leak.

[Holeshot71]

It's hard to tell, but it looks like the bottom of the intake may have been sitting up on the valley pan gasket in some areas. May have contributed to a bad intake/crossover seal?

[tom s]

Cant remember.Is there a reason you still have those tin shield on the springs?Tom