[GTOGEORGE]

You guys really need to stop beating that dead horse!

GTO George

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

I’m not arguing right or wrong, and yes it would seem he is not going with a larger engine so yes I am wrong (my gosh I’ve been wrong before). I’m sure I’ll bE wrong again and guess what the sun will come up! LOL! You do realize I gave my opinion, going off what I’ve seen on the show! His last 5 races/Laps he made he lost 4 of them. He said he has other ways of dealing with the more powerful/faster car, ok cool. I’m glad he is stepping up to a better head, he should have done it for Indy! I’m not a turbo guy but I do know boost and I do now racecars and I do know Racing! I’ll still say 520+ cubes and a pair of turbos are the way to go.....you can never have too much power! You know there is nothing wrong with giving an opinion (right or wrong) as long as it doesn’t harm someone!!


GTO Geo

Currently, calling the CV-1 a better head than the E head is debatable at best. Until someone makes more power than Mike did NA or Rodney Butler has with his Wide Port twin turbo its kind of hard to do.
In that old closed thread about Bruce calling me out on the CV-1s is was stated that Mike did not switch in part that it was a lateral move, equal. And that guy knows his heads.
Not saying Chiefs new CVs won't make more power than his std E heads, they have 100 more CFM.
They have to be reliable, not burn plugs or crack seats ect. 40lbs of boost can make a small problem a big one real quick.
That will be the test, its a prove it world and Chiefs is a big money world com paired to us po folk.
He just moved up to #1 with a 350 E head, still..........

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Currently, calling the CV-1 a better head than the E head is debatable at best. Until someone makes more power than Mike did NA or Rodney Butler has with his Wide Port twin turbo its kind of hard to do.
In that old closed thread about Bruce calling me out on the CV-1s is was stated that Mike did not switch in part that it was a lateral move, equal. And that guy knows his heads.
Not saying Chiefs new CVs won't make more power than his std E heads, they have 100 more CFM.
They have to be reliable, not burn plugs or crack seats ect. 40lbs of boost can make a small problem a big one real quick.
That will be the test, its a prove it world and Chiefs is a big money world com paired to us po folk.
He just moved up to #1 with a 350 E head, still..........

Better flowing head....the rest we’ll find out, bad or good!


GTO George

[bluegoat65]

Would like to see the new bullet go in the crowmod. You know, to take on Jet Dragsters and such. Pro Mod again?

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by charlie66

Hey George , Just because you want to think like a dumbass dont mean chief has to think like one too! I guess that little under powered 482 is good enough for #1 !! hahahahahaha!! 482TTF!!

LMFAO, great play on S.O. disclosure. George I would have laughed even if it was directed at me!!

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by JSPONT

LMFAO, great play on S.O. disclosure. George I would have laughed even if it was directed at me!!

At least someone appreciates my humor ! lol

George definitely dont..

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by charlie66

At least someone appreciates my humor ! lol

George definitely dont..

Maybe it was your timing!


GTO George

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Maybe it was your timing!


GTO George

George the timing was perfect. Its your sense of humor that needs some tuning..

All in fun george . I was not trying to offend you . Just making a joke because he won with a smaller engine that you said was not good enough for the big Proline fire ball #1 big dog car! Chief and his lil baby motor are king now.. I think thats funny after all you said...

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

What happened to that big inch "572" ?????? All the CV Patrol was like yeah, see, see..............

Ask Bill... Life and work... It's nearly done though.

Then Chief comes on and sets us all straight. Going smaller yet and keeping E heads until further notice.

Guess it's convenient for you to omit the cv1 stuff.

Then Bruce Almighty is telling us all about the virtues of short strokes and why its the way to go.
Can not make this stuff.

There are intelligent engine people including Pontiac builders who would agree that a high power turbo Pontiac with LESS than 4.25 stroke is a better way to go.

People here have got on me about mixing it up with "couple" guys 2-3 seconds faster than me. I get it, I really do. Just like to talk engines ect.

Then talk engines... Not fantasy and false assumptions.

Then Bruce comes on and tells all the big dogs about short strokes and why they are better and turbos are the way to go. From driving his wifes 13 sec street car and playing with a home porta tree I guess.

Wrong again DRAGBOY.. You we're maybe 6 when I first ran a car in the quarter. When you were maybe 10 I was upgrading to a larger compressor on my Turbo Spyder(Corvair) I was also a B52 crew cheif. Had been for two years...no small feat as I was moved into the position ONE stripe before normal minimum.
I must of been stupid by the way you're trying to paint me.
Think you don't need a vast knowledge base and strong ability to learn on the "fly". 6 years later I become branch senior tech over guys with 20+ years experience. In charge of 60+ techs coordinating equipment service improvements, assisting sales and administration as needed. I worked on advanced shipping and weighing equipment, high output custom mail inserters, and postal sorting.
In my spare time cars snowmobiles kept me occupied. I covered an area from lake Ontario Saint Lawrence river to South of PA border and from Rochester NY to beyond Oneonta. Quite often I would stop by various engine builders and "inspect" their small mailing equipment. Think I didn't learn things?
BTW my grandfather had his machine shop a block from me when I was a kid... He was a pattern maker, tool and die maker, held multiple engineering degrees, held many patents. The Mercury Gemini Appolo heat tiles(the ones that didn't fall off), mounting pieces and the tooling we're all done by him. He collaborated with another engineer at Bell aircraft to create the 1st ejection seat(1940's)
Do you think he didn't pass along alot of knowledge to me ?
My wife's car is her car she races it occasionally. Our first date was the dragstrip.☺️ Yes I've made a few runs.
I sold my 66 in 98 . 10 years it wasn't safe for racing any more without major frame and body work. I bought a 68 'bird convertible for cruising etc. Bought a 59 Catalina (420A car) a 55 Starcheif Custom Catalina and a 68 Catalina. By time I moved here I had sold all but my 68 Catalina. I drove it here(1000 miles) in July and no AC in a black car with dark red vinyl seats was not fun but it made it here with no issuue. I sold it and Bought a nice 84 GP... Got rear-ended by a delivery truck . Turned into daily driver for a long time... My health issues haven't speed things along. August 31- Thanksgiving in hospital... blood going to "gel" causing congestive heart failure (3×) like having a sludged up oil pickup in car guy terms. I Currently have a 90 bird.... Found issues so nice parts car... I'm shopping for better.

Must have had a 5 min conversation with Q and thinks he gets to suggest things to the fastest of the fastest around here.

Wrong again. Last I talked with Travis was at least 8 years ago... Was NOT about crankshaft stroke. EFI and timing it relative to cam events IIRC.

Polishing the 59 block would be more useful.

Actually... There can be benefits to doing that, along with detailing other things.
It would be pretty too. I have bare spots where I cleaned block many years ago and still nickel grey. Plenty of other things rusted nearby. Pontiac made good stuff!

I'll add a bit more that most won't care.... Over more than 30 years I averaged 40 hours per year of some type of training. For 26 years I was a field instructor and averaged close to 200 hours a year teaching technicians and occasionally engineers and sales people.(sometimes you learn alot from trainee's, especially diagnosing "service" installed problems lol)
I worked in business to business environment. Mom and pop business to big corporate giants and everything in between. Thousands of people met over the years. I worked in our factory with engineers and assembly line people on custom builds and even a few prototypes. I worked with corporate tech support, technical publications too.
These days I help an old car nut build Rat rods and Hot rods. He's fond of old Ford's and Mopars. Mostly 30s stuff. He has been looking for early thirties Pontiac coupes or convertibles. Not many for sale worth buying though. Currently finished a 33 Plymouth coupe with a 345 CI Desoto hemi. Refreshing his 33 Plymouth sedan he bought for $50 and drove home in 62.... Has a mild 318. There is a 33 Chrysler 3 window coupe( split windsheild too, quite rare) I put a 440 out of a Winnebago in it and a 9.3 Pontiac/Olds rear will be going under it. There is a near original 34 Plymouth convertible. New wiring and modern wheels, original 4 cyl runs great so it stays. Maybe old school speed parts if they come along. There's a model A needing a re-restore... Mice got to interior and wiring, paint needs attention.
I'm working on a 33 Dodge coupe Ford 8"rear Turbocharged slant six. Just fired the motor today. Smaller than I'd like turbo, air to air intercooler, blowing thru a Rochester 2Jet. MSD EFI pump Aeromotive regulator,MSD 6AL, At most double stock HP, he's not going to race it. Turbosmart manual boost controller, gate, and blow off valve. Waiting on wideband kit.
This car was in very solid condition. We put modern mustang suspension and rack up front, coilovers too. Rear is leaf spring. Factory suicide doors low factory "chop" and it's long hood...the car looks bad azz. Kind of a gangster look. Especially with it's current stance.

Ok back to Pontiacs.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Ask Bill... Life and work... It's nearly done though.

Guess it's convenient for you to omit the cv1 stuff.


There are intelligent engine people including Pontiac builders who would agree that a high power turbo Pontiac with LESS than 4.25 stroke is a better way to go.


Then talk engines... Not fantasy and false assumptions.



Wrong again DRAGBOY.. You we're maybe 6 when I first ran a car in the quarter. When you were maybe 10 I was upgrading to a larger compressor on my Turbo Spyder(Corvair) I was also a B52 crew cheif. Had been for two years...no small feat as I was moved into the position ONE stripe before normal minimum.
I must of been stupid by the way you're trying to paint me.
Think you don't need a vast knowledge base and strong ability to learn on the "fly". 6 years later I become branch senior tech over guys with 20+ years experience. In charge of 60+ techs coordinating equipment service improvements, assisting sales and administration as needed. I worked on advanced shipping and weighing equipment, high output custom mail inserters, and postal sorting.
In my spare time cars snowmobiles kept me occupied. I covered an area from lake Ontario Saint Lawrence river to South of PA border and from Rochester NY to beyond Oneonta. Quite often I would stop by various engine builders and "inspect" their small mailing equipment. Think I didn't learn things?
BTW my grandfather had his machine shop a block from me when I was a kid... He was a pattern maker, tool and die maker, held multiple engineering degrees, held many patents. The Mercury Gemini Appolo heat tiles(the ones that didn't fall off), mounting pieces and the tooling we're all done by him. He collaborated with another engineer at Bell aircraft to create the 1st ejection seat(1940's)
Do you think he didn't pass along alot of knowledge to me ?
My wife's car is her car she races it occasionally. Our first date was the dragstrip.☺️ Yes I've made a few runs.
I sold my 66 in 98 . 10 years it wasn't safe for racing any more without major frame and body work. I bought a 68 'bird convertible for cruising etc. Bought a 59 Catalina (420A car) a 55 Starcheif Custom Catalina and a 68 Catalina. By time I moved here I had sold all but my 68 Catalina. I drove it here(1000 miles) in July and no AC in a black car with dark red vinyl seats was not fun but it made it here with no issuue. I sold it and Bought a nice 84 GP... Got rear-ended by a delivery truck . Turned into daily driver for a long time... My health issues haven't speed things along. August 31- Thanksgiving in hospital... blood going to "gel" causing congestive heart failure (3×) like having a sludged up oil pickup in car guy terms. I Currently have a 90 bird.... Found issues so nice parts car... I'm shopping for better.


Wrong again. Last I talked with Travis was at least 8 years ago... Was NOT about crankshaft stroke. EFI and timing it relative to cam events IIRC.



Actually... There can be benefits to doing that, along with detailing other things.
It would be pretty too. I have bare spots where I cleaned block many years ago and still nickel grey. Plenty of other things rusted nearby. Pontiac made good stuff!

I'll add a bit more that most won't care.... Over more than 30 years I averaged 40 hours per year of some type of training. For 26 years I was a field instructor and averaged close to 200 hours a year teaching technicians and occasionally engineers and sales people.(sometimes you learn alot from trainee's, especially diagnosing "service" installed problems lol)
I worked in business to business environment. Mom and pop business to big corporate giants and everything in between. Thousands of people met over the years. I worked in our factory with engineers and assembly line people on custom builds and even a few prototypes. I worked with corporate tech support, technical publications too.
These days I help an old car nut build Rat rods and Hot rods. He's fond of old Ford's and Mopars. Mostly 30s stuff. He has been looking for early thirties Pontiac coupes or convertibles. Not many for sale worth buying though. Currently finished a 33 Plymouth coupe with a 345 CI Desoto hemi. Refreshing his 33 Plymouth sedan he bought for $50 and drove home in 62.... Has a mild 318. There is a 33 Chrysler 3 window coupe( split windsheild too, quite rare) I put a 440 out of a Winnebago in it and a 9.3 Pontiac/Olds rear will be going under it. There is a near original 34 Plymouth convertible. New wiring and modern wheels, original 4 cyl runs great so it stays. Maybe old school speed parts if they come along. There's a model A needing a re-restore... Mice got to interior and wiring, paint needs attention.
I'm working on a 33 Dodge coupe Ford 8"rear Turbocharged slant six. Just fired the motor today. Smaller than I'd like turbo, air to air intercooler, blowing thru a Rochester 2Jet. MSD EFI pump Aeromotive regulator,MSD 6AL, At most double stock HP, he's not going to race it. Turbosmart manual boost controller, gate, and blow off valve. Waiting on wideband kit.
This car was in very solid condition. We put modern mustang suspension and rack up front, coilovers too. Rear is leaf spring. Factory suicide doors low factory "chop" and it's long hood...the car looks bad azz. Kind of a gangster look. Especially with it's current stance.

Ok back to Pontiacs.

That's a really long post...just saying


:

[Jeff Kinsler]

EHTTFMF

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

What happened to that big inch "572" ?????? All the CV Patrol was like yeah, see, see..............
Then Chief comes on and sets us all straight. Going smaller yet and keeping E heads until further notice.
Then Bruce Almighty is telling us all about the virtues of short strokes and why its the way to go.
Can not make this stuff.
People here have got on me about mixing it up with "couple" guys 2-3 seconds faster than me. I get it, I really do. Just like to talk engines ect.
Then Bruce comes on and tells all the big dogs about short strokes and why they are better and turbos are the way to go. From driving his wifes 13 sec street car and playing with a home porta tree I guess.
Must have had a 5 min conversation with Q and thinks he gets to suggest things to the fastest of the fastest around here.
Polishing the 59 block would be more useful.

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Better flowing head....the rest we’ll find out, bad or good!


GTO George

I won't argue with you on this George. Thanks.
More amazing is people don't have a clue what Bill's porting skill level is. Think most actually believe BS posted on pathetic zone. One doesn't work as sole head porter for Sonny Leonard Racing without being among the best of the best.
Yet criticized by many who havn't seen his work or seen CV1 heads.

Bill can do a great E-head or any other head for that matter Dragncar. 😁

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

That's a really long post...just saying


:

Long resume isn't it? Sorry

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

I won't argue with you on this George. Thanks.
More amazing is people don't have a clue what Bill's porting skill level is. Think most actually believe BS posted on pathetic zone. One doesn't work as sole head porter for Sonny Leonard Racing without being among the best of the best.
Yet criticized by many who havn't seen his work or seen CV1 heads.

Bill can do a great E-head or any other head for that matter Dragncar. 😁

I will agree with you on that one. One doesn't work at one of the top 3 engine shops in the country for 6 years and not know what he is doing..
Sonny's has a lot of championships under their belt... a lot of which have been in the last 6 years.. Pontiac guys live in a small pond but there is a huge ocean out there they know nothing about...
The Pontiac head is not unique.. flow and acceleration are all the same no matter what the brand...
Questioning Bill's ability makes you look like a dumbass... just my opinion as I work with a car that swims in the ocean...

[Formulas]

Anyone have any real insight why Chief would go CV-1 over aftermarket RA-V Heads ?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

I won't argue with you on this George. Thanks.
More amazing is people don't have a clue what Bill's porting skill level is. Think most actually believe BS posted on pathetic zone. One doesn't work as sole head porter for Sonny Leonard Racing without being among the best of the best.
Yet criticized by many who havn't seen his work or seen CV1 heads.

Bill can do a great E-head or any other head for that matter Dragncar. 😁

What does Twin have to do with anything I wrote ? What does PZ have to do with any opinion you "think" I have of him ?
I have heard more sh!t talk around here about the man to tell you the truth.
He did not design the CV did he ?
Very little, if any things I have said about the head have anything to do with Bill.
I made peace with the guy, let it rest.
What I am saying is the head now has to prove it. Has not been done before so proving is not anything out of the ordinary.
Just do it, people will give credit where it is due and I will send you your 50 bucks.
Simple.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by Formulas

... Anyone have any real insight why Chief would go CV-1 over aftermarket RA-V Heads ?...

I would also like to hear about that. Perhaps not enough examples out there to prove reliability?

[Dragncar]

Dons heads have not had a bunch of running big power examples. They are on their way I hear.
The H&M head is going to be eye opening IMO when the big engine gets up and going. Billet block, Hemi bottom end I think and 520+cfm straight as can be ports with separate exhaust. The engine that was running for awhile had very even EGTs with a huge roots blower which is something.
I had someone send a pic of Daves new raised port RAV to Chiefs cell. Never heard anything back.
The billet block, billet head RAV would be as close as you can come with a Pontiac to the giant, billet this, billet that engines he goes up against.

[chiefbigb]

If chief upgrades the engine what will happen to everything else on the car? Gear change-converter learning curve- possible first gear ratio swap-fuel system upgrade. Long list just to start figuring out what that engine likes. Doesn't sound like he has allot of spare time and already knows what the current setup can do. The in season swap would more than likely slow him down. A second car to tune on makes sense to me. Major expense

[charlie66]

I dont see him doing it either. At best after he puts his smaller new combo together with the e heads he'll put those CV's on his old short block and try testing it off season ?? or else hes taking a big chance with working out the bugs in time to keep up with the shows demanding schedule..