[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by mike leech

I'll bet you don't have to eat crow on the first try.

... oh i'd bet that thing will have to be delt with, John is just being hyper-critical on himself, which is cool, i can understand that ... something tells me he will be on the upper part that qualify list ...

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by john marcella

You coming to Norwalk with the CV2? Or some form of it? It sounds like you have something up your sleeve.

... thats what i like about you John, you are a perceptive kinda' guy ... CV2 ?? no ...

[DINO1]

Originally Posted by mike leech

No offense but this is the most retarded rules i've ever seen.

Please elaborate on your statement. It is my understanding that their were quite a few cars in the field. More than what showes up for the N/A heads up deal @ Norwalk. With less than 1/4 of the total car count. The Norwalk race cuts out a lot of contenders due to the fact that the rules only fit a handful of cars. Me includeded, just because I don't fit the bill of the Pontiac Elite, mainly because of the Head I run on my ride, does not mean that I can't hang with the rest of the Elite. I could put a two stage N20 fogger on my stuff, tweek the suspention and maybe hang with a few of the of the best. You folks just want to keep the rules tailored to what fits your ride. Put your stuff up against an open field and the tails go between your legs. I know of quite a few Fords that would show you the tailights with less CI and more weight, since that seems to be your focus. Oh wait did I just say that. How many Pontiacs in the low 5's high 4's in X275. In reality Pontiacs are the red headed step child in racing. More power can be made for less money with other brands. And if you were the true die hard racers that you portray, and were looking for the most ET and MPH per $ you would not be racing a Pontiac. But instead we are true die hards and all we do is bicker on who makes the best head, who's block make the most power. and do nothing to help each other out because racer X runs Head Y and runs Block Z. The other brands will always stay ahead at this rate. We all live by retarded rules every day of our life.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by 7T2

2009!
and not even a single running engine- wheres the outrage???

I don't think the heads have been actually available to the general public since 2009. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems they didn't start getting out there until the last year or so.

[Sirrotica]

They (Edelbrock) modeled their introduction from GMs introduction of the crapmaro, 5 years from prototype to production.
Probably not the best model to use................
Strive for perfection, settle for mediocrity..........

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by DINO1

Please elaborate on your statement. It is my understanding that their were quite a few cars in the field. More than what showes up for the N/A heads up deal @ Norwalk. With less than 1/4 of the total car count. The Norwalk race cuts out a lot of contenders due to the fact that the rules only fit a handful of cars. Me includeded, just because I don't fit the bill of the Pontiac Elite, mainly because of the Head I run on my ride, does not mean that I can't hang with the rest of the Elite. I could put a two stage N20 fogger on my stuff, tweek the suspention and maybe hang with a few of the of the best. You folks just want to keep the rules tailored to what fits your ride. Put your stuff up against an open field and the tails go between your legs. I know of quite a few Fords that would show you the tailights with less CI and more weight, since that seems to be your focus. Oh wait did I just say that. How many Pontiacs in the low 5's high 4's in X275. In reality Pontiacs are the red headed step child in racing. More power can be made for less money with other brands. And if you were the true die hard racers that you portray, and were looking for the most ET and MPH per $ you would not be racing a Pontiac. But instead we are true die hards and all we do is bicker on who makes the best head, who's block make the most power. and do nothing to help each other out because racer X runs Head Y and runs Block Z. The other brands will always stay ahead at this rate. We all live by retarded rules every day of our life.

I dont get you

The Norwalk deal is a NA race. What are you suggesting? you get to run 2 stages in a NA race

How many NA combos in 275? And then that are fast?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

I don't think the heads have been actually available to the general public since 2009. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems they didn't start getting out there until the last year or so.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Pro Ports have only been available for the last 12 months or so. They might have been shown back in 2009 but I know you couldn't buy a set back then. I had to wait about a month or a little longer to get mine because there isn't a big stock of them now.

[tom s]

Dino1,I made the rules for Norwalk and I dont have a race car and dont have a dog in the fight.My class has the LEAST rules of any heads up race I know of.Run what ya brung,just dont bring a knife to a gun fight.Tom

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by DINO1

Please elaborate on your statement. It is my understanding that their were quite a few cars in the field. More than what showes up for the N/A heads up deal @ Norwalk. With less than 1/4 of the total car count. The Norwalk race cuts out a lot of contenders due to the fact that the rules only fit a handful of cars. Me includeded, just because I don't fit the bill of the Pontiac Elite, mainly because of the Head I run on my ride, does not mean that I can't hang with the rest of the Elite. I could put a two stage N20 fogger on my stuff, tweek the suspention and maybe hang with a few of the of the best. You folks just want to keep the rules tailored to what fits your ride. Put your stuff up against an open field and the tails go between your legs. I know of quite a few Fords that would show you the tailights with less CI and more weight, since that seems to be your focus. Oh wait did I just say that. How many Pontiacs in the low 5's high 4's in X275. In reality Pontiacs are the red headed step child in racing. More power can be made for less money with other brands. And if you were the true die hard racers that you portray, and were looking for the most ET and MPH per $ you would not be racing a Pontiac. But instead we are true die hards and all we do is bicker on who makes the best head, who's block make the most power. and do nothing to help each other out because racer X runs Head Y and runs Block Z. The other brands will always stay ahead at this rate. We all live by retarded rules every day of our life.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retarded I couldn't be more clear but here is a definition.

A sobering bit of info for you to chew on is the FACT that your head has nothing to do with your car not fitting the RULES. All you need to do is add the weight. So tell me honestly Dino, why did you choose to build a 535? I'll bet it was for the easy hp. The problem is ALL class racing penalizes bigger engines with weight. I'm not whining that my car could go faster if it were lighter and had bigger tires or a blower. I know for a fact that IF i wanted to make the show in the q16 I would need a different car or a power adder to do it.WTF is your point?????

Just so we are clear here you seem a nice enough guy and your car runs pretty good. Looking forward to meeting you. I'm sure you don't mean to come off the way it sounds when i read your posts, but you gotta face the facts here. Your car can fit the rules...you just know as well as i do what will happen when it makes weight. IT WILL SLOW THE #%$&! DOWN. For clarity theres a bunch of guys with eheads, tigers, and high ports in the same boat. They can make their cars fit the rules too. Even without the weight they can't compete and they know it, That is why the car count is what it is. People with big motors and slow cars don't want to get embarrased. There are some that planned for this class. I am not one of them. I didn't see the advantage in building a big engine that is inefficient, that is why i built what i did 8 years ago.

Dino"Put your stuff up against an open field and the tails go between your legs"

An open field of what? anything goes? The stupid rules i said are retarded?

So with all due respect there will be no tail tucking here. Sorry to disappoint you. Your car runs good, but i hate to break it to ya, You are NO WHERE NEAR the elite. I got 100hp on ya And neither am I.

Are you one of the CV1 guys that just will NOT take a race unless your car is lighter, engine bigger or you have a power adder or some other advantage? fit the rules and run for crying out loud.

I've read several times in this thread about MAX EFFORT ehead this or langer head that from several sources. NO ONE IS COMPARING CV1 heads to langers heads. make a 1000 na and you will have a starting point, but still be 200hp shy. say what you want but john works hard at it.

For the record just because someone gets good results does not mean they are max effort. And conversely if someone achieves poor results does not mean that it was not max effort. YOU CAN PUT IN MAX EFFORT AN NOT GET DESIRED RESULTS!

Now I gotta get mine back together speaking of undesired results.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by mike leech

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retarded I couldn't be more clear but here is a definition.

A sobering bit of info for you to chew on is the FACT that your head has nothing to do with your car not fitting the RULES. All you need to do is add the weight. So tell me honestly Dino, why did you choose to build a 535? I'll bet it was for the easy hp. The problem is ALL class racing penalizes bigger engines with weight.

Hate to burst YOUR bubble....They dont penalize bigger engines on a straight scale like Tom is using.
Heres the 10.5 rules that Langer races under.
http://www.nashootout.com/?page_id=28

Take note of a few things here....

WEIGHTS
• [300"=2500] [350”=2700] [400”=2900] [450"=3050] [500"=3200]
[550"=3300] [600"=3400] [625"=3450]
Weights will be calculated with 4lbs/cube 300-400”, 3lbs/cube 401-500”,
2lbs/cube 501-625”, 1lbs/cube over 625, 3600 is limit.

Notice the minimums there?

How come the bigger motors DONT need as many lbs per ci?

Could it be bigger motors are NOT "easy" to make more power per CI? FACT bigger motors cant make more power per ci.

• Ladder Bar, 4 links & backhalves add 50lb, two carburetors add 25lb,
sheetmetal intake add 25lb, All stick transmissions add 75lb,
P/G subtract 50lb, No wheelie bars subtract 25lb. D/R tires subtract 50lbs.
• Subtract 50lb for OEM Styled 1981 and older sub-frame cars, 75lb full frame,
100lb full size bodies and trucks.
HEAD WEIGHTS
(A)+100lbs, Big Chief, DRCE, SC-1, D3, Pro King, Canted SBC, SB2, SBX etc.
(B)+50lbs, BBC BMF, Brodix HH, Victor. Victor SBF, TFS R, Yates & HP, SBC Wedge
(C) +0lbs, BBC Dart 320/360/PRO 1, Conv. Brodix, B-1, C302
(D) -75lbs, Pontiac Tiger, Super Chiefs
(E) -100lbs, Pontiac, 23 degree sbc, 20 degree sbf, TFS Hi Port, 867 Pontiac
(F) -225lbs, AMC, Buick, Olds

So... if Toms race was 6.55 lbs instead of 6.75 per CI would you be as willing to run it with your current combo? Would you go build a car that fits this weight break better? For a once a year race? I suspect probably NOT to all 3. Not saying you wouldnt race, but I suspect you'd be a bit more reluctant.

Dino built his car to fit what he wants from his car PERIOD. I'm sure he'd take a donation from you if you want him to take it to the level you think his motor should be.

[john marcella]

Not the bigger motor cant make power BS again.

[slowbird]

Bruce the difference between 6.55 vs 6.75 is only 100lbs for a 535 really doubt that would stop anyone from running if they truely wanted to. If you lower it to much you'll be competing against Langer wonder how that'll turn out.

[DINO1]

Originally Posted by mike leech

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retarded I couldn't be more clear but here is a definition.

A sobering bit of info for you to chew on is the FACT that your head has nothing to do with your car not fitting the RULES. All you need to do is add the weight. So tell me honestly Dino, why did you choose to build a 535? I'll bet it was for the easy hp. The problem is ALL class racing penalizes bigger engines with weight. I'm not whining that my car could go faster if it were lighter and had bigger tires or a blower. I know for a fact that IF i wanted to make the show in the q16 I would need a different car or a power adder to do it.WTF is your point?????

Just so we are clear here you seem a nice enough guy and your car runs pretty good. Looking forward to meeting you. I'm sure you don't mean to come off the way it sounds when i read your posts, but you gotta face the facts here. Your car can fit the rules...you just know as well as i do what will happen when it makes weight. IT WILL SLOW THE #%$&! DOWN. For clarity theres a bunch of guys with eheads, tigers, and high ports in the same boat. They can make their cars fit the rules too. Even without the weight they can't compete and they know it, That is why the car count is what it is. People with big motors and slow cars don't want to get embarrased. There are some that planned for this class. I am not one of them. I didn't see the advantage in building a big engine that is inefficient, that is why i built what i did 8 years ago.

Dino"Put your stuff up against an open field and the tails go between your legs"

An open field of what? anything goes? The stupid rules i said are retarded?

So with all due respect there will be no tail tucking here. Sorry to disappoint you. Your car runs good, but i hate to break it to ya, You are NO WHERE NEAR the elite. I got 100hp on ya And neither am I.

Are you one of the CV1 guys that just will NOT take a race unless your car is lighter, engine bigger or you have a power adder or some other advantage? fit the rules and run for crying out loud.

I've read several times in this thread about MAX EFFORT ehead this or langer head that from several sources. NO ONE IS COMPARING CV1 heads to langers heads. make a 1000 na and you will have a starting point, but still be 200hp shy. say what you want but john works hard at it.

For the record just because someone gets good results does not mean they are max effort. And conversely if someone achieves poor results does not mean that it was not max effort. YOU CAN PUT IN MAX EFFORT AN NOT GET DESIRED RESULTS!

Now I gotta get mine back together speaking of undesired results.

I'll still race ya, It's like I said it's not about the weight, the head what carb I might be running in particular. It is about the whole combination.
It's almost like some of you build and race your car for this one race, not the case for me.
As for why did I build a 535, The first part I bought for this motor was the crank, I got a great deal on a cryo treated billit 4.5 stroke crank. I would have been just as happy with a few less cubes. I still would have built a fast motor. We have yet to see the full potential my motor will accomplish, I'm still working a couple bugs out of it. when I do get it worked out you will see sub 9's from it, N/A.
And the car is no light weight by a long shot. I could send my heads out to some big name shop and have them ported, but why? They are doing the job just fine the way they are, that is point about the whole deal. The CV1 bashers have a hard time accepting that, as I posted before, I asked who out their has bolted on a set of heads with no port work and run the times that I have. Then all of a sudden because I spent 20 min with a cartrige roll to clean up some casting flash and a few small bumps... my heads were magically ported. I don't know anybody who has not at least done that to a set of aluminum heads before they bolted them on.

[bad69bird]

Originally Posted by DINO1

It was a race that took place at Maple grove May 22 2011, put on by a group call Induction Solutions.

I do not belive they have any affiliation with Roland Racing, but then again maybe you know something I don't. Please educate me if I am mistaken.

You are wrong Dino. Induction Solutions was the primary sponsor...they did not put it on. The race was organized by Wreckmstr and myself and Jim Zeek allowed us to run at his event.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Hate to burst YOUR bubble....They dont penalize bigger engines on a straight scale like Tom is using.
Heres the 10.5 rules that Langer races under.
http://www.nashootout.com/?page_id=28

Take note of a few things here....




Notice the minimums there?

How come the bigger motors DONT need as many lbs per ci?

Could it be bigger motors are NOT "easy" to make more power per CI? FACT bigger motors cant make more power per ci.



So... if Toms race was 6.55 lbs instead of 6.75 per CI would you be as willing to run it with your current combo? Would you go build a car that fits this weight break better? For a once a year race? I suspect probably NOT to all 3. Not saying you wouldnt race, but I suspect you'd be a bit more reluctant.

Dino built his car to fit what he wants from his car PERIOD. I'm sure he'd take a donation from you if you want him to take it to the level you think his motor should be.

You guys are the ones crying about the rules I don't give a crap what the weight is. I'll hand the same guy his butt at 6.55 as i will at 6.75. AND THE SAME GUY WILL BEAT ME AT THAT WEIGHT AS 6.75 LBS /PER CI IF WE BOTH MAKE WEIGHT!

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND????!!!!!

YOU AND DINO BOTH KNOW WHAT WEIGHT DOES.

TELL YA WHAT RUN THAT CLASS LANGER RUNS.....he won't be the only one embarrassing you. They ALL will.

BTW my car sits at 6.55 as is so YES, i'm cool with that. I add weight to make 6.75 like a lot of others do, not complaining about it either. BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT IF 6.55 HELPS ME....IT WILL HELP SOMEONE ELSE AN EQUAL AMOUNT. OR MORE IF THEY ARE A CLUTCH-LESS STICK CAR.

You guys can't really be that clueless. I have yet to see you guys over look the weight per cube in the races you want to take. We can make something happen if you want Dino, its funny that you just happen to have a bigger engine. IF you refuse to run in NA class rules I'll take the weight out on sunday just for you....na. Because i know you really don't want to be constricted by rules that are unfair to your car only.


Dino built his car to fit what he wants from his car PERIOD. I'm sure he'd take a donation from you if you want him to take it to the level you think his motor should be.[/QUOTE]

This is what a guy is supposed to do. Good for him. I actually like his ride a lot. The same is true for my car. I don't have to run the hood that i am. Or that intake either. I would pick up some if i put a scoop on it, or a tunnel ram, or N2o.... if my aunt had a d!x she would be my uncle. I have 1 3/4" clearance carb to hood. i won't change the hood or the intake so this is what i have. I'm not making excuses for building my car the way i did either. I built my car the way i did for a reason...and it was't this race or pleasing anyone but me.

I add the weight....110lbs ....rules are rules...

AND NOW EVERYONE KNOWS WHY I CALL NORWALK THE SPECIAL OLYMPICS OF DRAG RACING!!! jeese.

[bad69bird]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... our best first crack customer, has been Robin Roberts, which is not an n/a car, Robin has stated many times, he doesn't care what it runs on motor, he wants to go fasssst !!! lol ...

I guess he was the only one huh? And what I did with the heads was chopped phucking liver???

[bankbook]

Listen up.

Most guys like myself built their ride out of fun and to race heads up. Not every one is building for a class race. As a result of that others like myself, can not enter this race because my car is turbo not because of the heads on the engine. So that definitely reduces the amount of cars that can run in that race.

I like others will be at Norwalk for the fun and the racing either way.

ps. Tom, I think should get alot of credit for putting on this race. Perhaps a look at B69B's Maple Grove rules may be a good thing.

My 2 cents.

[mike leech]

AND NOW EVERYONE KNOWS WHY I CALL NORWALK THE SPECIAL OLYMPICS OF DRAG RACING!!! jeese.

had to say it again.

this commercial is a fitting analogy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhqqAUh1VPU

[GTO Dan]

I don't understand

If someone doesn't like the rules of a race they can do what Tom S and Badbird/Wreckmaster did.

Organize your race to fit what you want, put up money, secure a venue, sign up sponsors, advertise and put up with all the I have this figured out better than you opinions.

Oh and hope racers actually show up.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by bad69bird

You are wrong Dino. Induction Solutions was the primary sponsor...they did not put it on. The race was organized by Wreckmstr and myself and Jim Zeek allowed us to run at his event.

if i offended you. My point was more along the lines of guys looking for new rules that fit there current combo. a fella would have to be low 8's to make that deal work.