[Jim Doran]

It is unfortunate that Keisler cannot get their act together and deliver on their marketing claims. They were offering a value proposition that differentiated them from other vendors in that they modified the TKO transmissions for better fit. Also the RS-600 and SS700 claim to also be 'no cut/modify' installations. Movig to another vendor to obtain a standard TKO will definitely require floor pan modifications. My guess this is part of the reason David stayed w/Keisler. Go find the thread from Phil ( 6567GTO ) where he put the TKO in his 65 GTO from another vendor. He added a patch panel to the trans tunnel.

[highrisk]

Originally Posted by Jim Doran

It is unfortunate that Keisler cannot get their act together and deliver on their marketing claims. They were offering a value proposition that differentiated them from other vendors in that they modified the TKO transmissions for better fit. Also the RS-600 and SS700 claim to also be 'no cut/modify' installations. Movig to another vendor to obtain a standard TKO will definitely require floor pan modifications. My guess this is part of the reason David stayed w/Keisler. Go find the thread from Phil ( 6567GTO ) where he put the TKO in his 65 GTO from another vendor. He added a patch panel to the trans tunnel.

That is exactly why I wanted the RS-600, or at the very least The Keisler modified TKO. I have done some checking on the American Powertrain website and they advertise their case is modified for nocut/minimal cut, "Transmission Streamlining - For a great, no cut/low cut fit in your tunnel". I have sent them an email to get further information and I am waiting their response. They also claim to have their own shifter so the stick is in the original position for the console, "AP Revolution Shifter Mechanism - Original 4-speed shift position". So I thought they might be an option to Keisler.

Dale

[Hammered]

I'm pretty sure the only thing Keisler does is knock about 0.2" off the shifter mounting pad and remove the torque arm boss. You can get a shifter that locates the handle just about anywhere you want.

[David Jones]

If anybody has an unmodded TKO I'll be glad to compare measurement with you.

[highrisk]

OK, here is a stupid question I just thought of while looking at the pictures from others that had to modify their tunnels, will the stock carpet, like the ones sold by PY, fit the bigger tunnel without pulling away from the sides? Or, is it going to require a custom made carpet so it will fit the tunnel and cover all the way to the walls? I am sure there are others that have already had to answer this.

Great job so far David, I have been following this for months because I am interested in doing the same. Your job is a lot harder since mine is already a 4 speed. But watching you do it has helped answer a lot of questions. Thanks for taking the time to share it with all of us. I am also glad you shared your troubles with Keisler and their reliability since I was very interested in their RS600 before they took it off of the market.

Dale

[David Jones]

I replaced my carpet a few years ago. Some inches had to be trimmed at the doors for it to fit.

[highrisk]

Did you get your carpet from PY? If you had to trim some, then hopefully there would be enough to cover the larger tunnel and still make it to the edges.
dale

[69Customs]

The Pontiac engineers put the original Dearborn tranny in on a 7 degree angle to get it to fit without cutting the tunnel. I have heard of one guy putting a tremec in a corvette at a 7 degree angle to keep from cutting the tunnel. But then he had to bend the shifter 7 degree to bring it straight up.
Just a thought.

[Jim Doran]

Jeff originally from Classic Chevy 5 speed is now a founder over at hurst-drivelines.

Good writeup on 67 GTO Tremec install, including side by side size comparisons, tunnel mods, etc;

"I still have to get new carpet because the new hole is in a different place, and because the tunnel is actually bigger now, the carpet pulled away from the door sill plates about an inch on each side. "

http://www.hurst-drivelines.com/?page_id=1677

[tom s]

I have delt with Jeff in the past,great to work with.Tom

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by highrisk

Did you get your carpet from PY? If you had to trim some, then hopefully there would be enough to cover the larger tunnel and still make it to the edges.
dale

The mfg'er was ACC. I don't remember where I got it. I try to get my stuff from PY and suspect that is where it came from. I also replaced the factory sound deadening and a couple of other things so PY was probably the vendor.

I'm going to get the car completely back together and see how the auto trans shifter hole in the carpet lines up before I worry too much about whether I have to replace the carpet or not. I'm going to be more concerned about the mechanical end of the install.

I get back from Chicago Tuesday afternoon and hope to get back under the car and resume trying to remove that driver side dowel.

[Blue1967GTO]

Originally Posted by highrisk

OK, here is a stupid question I just thought of while looking at the pictures from others that had to modify their tunnels, will the stock carpet, like the ones sold by PY, fit the bigger tunnel without pulling away from the sides?

I have a Keisler-modified TKO600 in my '67 GTO, I still had to cut my floor, but the carpet that was in the car still fits just fine as does the factory console. The shifter fits in the console hole better than it did with the stock Muncie.

[GOAT WHORE]

The carpet is going to depend on how you modified the tunnel and if your running a console or not. The ACC carpet I ordered did not fit in my car with my Modified tunnel but I am not running a console, I will be brining it to someone for a custome fit.
As a side note I checked the run out of my scatter shield today. I am building a new motor so I had the luxury of checking with just the crank installed in the block with the scatter shield installed. So very easy, took about 15 min max! Mine was out .017, ordered Robbmc
.014 dowells. Tack welded some all thread to the old dowells and used your tool Dave, worked great!

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

The carpet is going to depend on how you modified the tunnel and if your running a console or not. The ACC carpet I ordered did not fit in my car with my Modified tunnel but I am not running a console, I will be brining it to someone for a custome fit.
As a side note I checked the run out of my scatter shield today. I am building a new motor so I had the luxury of checking with just the crank installed in the block with the scatter shield installed. So very easy, took about 15 min max! Mine was out .017, ordered Robbmc
.014 dowells. Tack welded some all thread to the old dowells and used your tool Dave, worked great!

So it was out .034 divided by 2?

Hmmmm. I didn't think about simply tacking the all thread to the dowel. I may do that if quickly threading the hole I have drilled doesn't work....

It's great to have so many people and ideas to draw from......thanks PY!

[GOAT WHORE]

Yes .034 divided by 2.

[GTOGreg]

just got my Tremec TKO 600 from Hurst Drivelines. It has the Hurst Blackjack offset shifter. Doesn't look all that different from the Keisler unit I bought and sent back last year (for the RS that never materialized). I was talking with a guy at Tremec and he said the modifications Keisler does to the tranny voids the facotry warranty, and so Keisler had to step up with their own warranty if there are issues.

With respect to carpet, I had previously ordered ACC carpet UNCUT so that I could customize the fit to accomodate the Tremec panel and the insulation I'm going to put under there (b-quiet heatshield + dynamat dynaliner). There's a real good Jeff Lily restorations article about this somewhere out there ont he web - I printed it out for reference. In the article, they did the carpet install in a 442 and it came out looking super nice.

This is a great thread, David. Thanks for sharing your experience and leading the way for the rest of us that want to do this mod. Hope you are rowing gears very soon...

[David Jones]

Thanks Greg.
I hope to get back under it tonight and get that dowel pin out and the offset pins in.

[David Jones]

Success pulling the driver side dowel. I bought a new tap (ruined the other one....) and drilled the hole in the dowel a bit deeper. Since I wasn't able to drill straight in the end of the dowel I didn't want to risk drilling into the block so I was conservative with the depth. I carefully threaded the hole and set up my puller. The all thread was at an angle (hole wasn't straight....) but as I tightened the nut the all thread straightened up and when it was straight with the dowel you could suddenly see the rod start sliding out of the socket....the dowel was moving out. The sides of the OEM dowel were so shiney they looked polished.....I'm taking that as meaning it was somewhat tighter than the passenger side dowel. I cleaned each hole well and put a little oil on the new RobbMc offset dowels and installed them. .007 is pretty slight and I think the offset lines up with the engraved part number on the dowel lip. That's the way I put them in anyway. (I'm going to verify that with an email to RobbMc) I left them loose until I re-installed the motor plate, flywheel and scattershield and then tightened the allen bolt securing them in the block. I tried to check the alignment again but couldn't get a repeatable number, supper called and these computer operator arms decided enough was enough so I'll look at it fresh tomorrow and see what's fighting me this time.

[Hammered]

Did you happen to notice if there was a freeze plug behind the passenger side? Mine had one and I was glad that the grease method failed me on the drivers side. Otherwise, I'm sure I would've pushed the plug into the oil passage near the filter. Instead I used your method.

[MikeR64]

Originally Posted by David Jones

I'm told the 4sp cars have some sort of advantage in room, but find that hard to completely believe. I wonder if the difference is that one has a shifter "porch" and one doesn't? A side to side comparison between the T400 and the Tremec shows not that much difference. The Tremec is square and that'll be the problem.

I have been reading this with interest for a while now and ran across David's post above. I put one of the Kiesler TKO-500 5 speeds in my 64 GTO convertible (which is an original 4 speed car) about three years ago. I did no cutting on the trans tunnel at all. I used a ball-peen hammer to do some massaging where the top rear of the shifter tower is - maybe about 3/8". and then it was only to the rear and passenger side of the tower. Other than that, it fit in with plenty of clearance.
The only other mod I had to do was the trans crossmember. I bought a new stock one. On convertibles, the frame rails are boxed and there is a little shelf along each rail where the crossmember sits. The crossmember mounts using a rubber insulator cup affair and there is no room to move it back like is needed. I left off the rubber insulators and cups and drilled two new holes on each side, then bolted the crossmember directly to the shelf. It probably made the trans about 1/8" lower in the back, all else being the same.