[john marcella]

If a new head design is much better, is shows up in most cases immediately.
And if a head design is really good, its easy to make power with.

Look at NHRA. There was a Ford at every event trying to Q for years but never could. Now they got new parts to work with as well as a new head and, WALA, FAST.

Im not afraid to stick my neck out on my build with my Pro Pocketbook heads. I will probably be one of the first to run these. And my motor will only be 481 cid with one carb and if i dont make over 1000 on day 1 on the dyno, i will publicly apologise to Jim and all about anything i may have said about the CV1.

[DINO1]

Can we race carbs next month?

The head debate is getting real old.

As previousely stated, we Pontiac folks are our own worst enemy. Instead of knocking the brand down, how about giving it a hand up and put in some constructive critisism.

After a race...whether you win or loose, get out of your car shake the opponents hand and tell him it was a good race no matter what combo he chooses to run.

I told the wife I'm ready to go buy a Mustang to race, at least those folks don't have all the BS to deal with, and they are certainly fast on a budget.

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by DINO1

Can we race carbs next month?

The head debate is getting real old.

As previousely stated, we Pontiac folks are our own worst enemy. Instead of knocking the brand down, how about giving it a hand up and put in some constructive critisism.

After a race...whether you win or loose, get out of your car shake the opponents hand and tell him it was a good race no matter what combo he chooses to run.

I told the wife I'm ready to go buy a Mustang to race, at least those folks don't have all the BS to deal with, and they are certainly fast on a budget.

Did the constructive criticism, as well as others did. In return we all got or credibility attacked.

My previous post was in regards to the # of posts about other heads having way more time to develop the combo. IMO its BS

[lreGTO65]

Originally Posted by john marcella

If a new head design is much better, is shows up in most cases immediately.
And if a head design is really good, its easy to make power with.

Look at NHRA. There was a Ford at every event trying to Q for years but never could. Now they got new parts to work with as well as a new head and, WALA, FAST.

Im not afraid to stick my neck out on my build with my Pro Pocketbook heads. I will probably be one of the first to run these. And my motor will only be 481 cid with one carb and if i dont make over 1000 on day 1 on the dyno, i will publicly apologise to Jim and all about anything i may have said about the CV1.

I agree John, the difference should be easy to see. I think my point is, how many max effort guys have these heads so far? I haven't heard anything bad about them yet, but who has them that has pushed them to the limits like others have with E heads or Tiger heads?

[lreGTO65]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Did the constructive criticism, as well as others did. In return we all got or credibility attacked.

My previous post was in regards to the # of posts about other heads having way more time to develop the combo. IMO its BS

You don't think their is any validity to that? You think every guy with Tiger heads, or wide ports, or Wanzlers, or E-heads, just bolted them on and the combo was perfect?

What if a guy switched from E heads to CV-1's, now the combo really needs a better camshaft to utilize the new heads. But now that guy can't afford the cam swap because he is on a budget and spent his money on the head swap?

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by lreGTO65

You don't think their is any validity to that? You think every guy with Tiger heads, or wide ports, or Wanzlers, or E-heads, just bolted them on and the combo was perfect?

What if a guy switched from E heads to CV-1's, now the combo really needs a better camshaft to utilize the new heads. But now that guy can't afford the cam swap because he is on a budget and spent his money on the head swap?

Your right. 4 years is not enough time to have a combo to hang your hat on.

[lreGTO65]

Not if more guys are just buying them for streep/strip heads John. Not everyone is trying to set the world on fire. I don't know who bought every set of heads, and what they are being used for.
8.13@170 seems pretty stout for a 3350# car.

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by lreGTO65

I agree John, the difference should be easy to see. I think my point is, how many max effort guys have these heads so far? I haven't heard anything bad about them yet, but who has them that has pushed them to the limits like others have with E heads or Tiger heads?

The difference is easy to see. If another head combo makes good power, it gets labeled as MAX EFFORT. Even though it may not be.
There are several said head combos out there that have had more than one set of port designs on the motor, you dont call that trying?

[lreGTO65]

Well I see everyone throw Langer's name in the hat, I would consider him max effort. Wouldn't you?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by john marcella

If a new head design is much better, is shows up in most cases immediately.
And if a head design is really good, its easy to make power with.

Look at NHRA. There was a Ford at every event trying to Q for years but never could. Now they got new parts to work with as well as a new head and, WALA, FAST.

Im not afraid to stick my neck out on my build with my Pro Pocketbook heads. I will probably be one of the first to run these. And my motor will only be 481 cid with one carb and if i dont make over 1000 on day 1 on the dyno, i will publicly apologise to Jim and all about anything i may have said about the CV1.

... no offense here John, but serious question, do you think the amount of work it takes to make a " Langer " set of heads is easy ??? ...

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Your right. 4 years is not enough time to have a combo to hang your hat on.

... now that is a complete mis-respresentation of what has taken place concerning the CV-1 heads John, i have only been on board with the development of this head for about 2yrs now, what Roland did prior to that was make a high quality head with a superb valvetrain for a street/strip application ... others made offers for development of the head, which he choose not to pursue, he has that right, it is his cylinder head ...
... many people have made some pretty stout claims as to what this head will do, and, what it will not do ... which i believe is where much of this animosity or doubt comes from ...
... as far as a combo to hang your hat on, i think Robin's combo is an easy choice, so far, but i assure you, we are not even close to being finished ...
... i would like people to try and rewind back to a time with any other head, say, about 2yrs into it's development, and tell me where those heads were at ??? Performance wise ??? ... Quality wise ??? Customer Service wise even ??? ...
... there are not too many heads that can say, after its release, that every head it replaced, with the exception of one, (so far) it has outperformed to some degree ?? ...
... you want us to hang our hat on something ?? That would be my choice , and that is the as cast CV-1, nothing i've done ... but what do i know ... i can tell you that not everyone lives in the " Max Effort " world John ...
... but for me personally, i do ... and we are working on that ... if anyone here can back up for just a second, and take a look at the full scope of this development program, we are not working on just one cylinder head ... there is much more underway here ...
... i still have a much bigger surprize waiting for you guys ... anything worth doing, is worth doing correctly, and that takes time ... please be patient ... we are working on the answers you are looking for ...

[T Syron]

Bill, how many max effort NA CV-1 combos have been built? Has anyone offered up the large amount of $$$$ to build one?

Tom Syron

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... no offense here John, but serious question, do you think the amount of work it takes to make a " Langer " set of heads is easy ??? ...

YES

[bruce driggers]

Originally Posted by john marcella

If a new head design is much better, is shows up in most cases immediately.
And if a head design is really good, its easy to make power with.

Look at NHRA. There was a Ford at every event trying to Q for years but never could. Now they got new parts to work with as well as a new head and, WALA, FAST.

Im not afraid to stick my neck out on my build with my Pro Pocketbook heads. I will probably be one of the first to run these. And my motor will only be 481 cid with one carb and if i dont make over 1000 on day 1 on the dyno, i will publicly apologise to Jim and all about anything i may have said about the CV1.

Are you going to run a cast intake or one of your 1 off specials ?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by T Syron

Bill, how many max effort NA CV-1 combos have been built? Has anyone offered up the large amount of $$$$ to build one?

Tom Syron

... not counting mine, ZERO !!! ... not by my definition, and most others ...

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by john marcella

YES

... really ??? ... i honestly find that hard to believe, but i could be wrong i guess ... i didn't realize a set of 10K+ set of heads was an easy thing ... not to try and discredit the work put into those heads, thats not what i'm sayin', i just dont see how a 10,000 or more set of heads would be easy ... hence, the price ...

[T Syron]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... not counting mine, ZERO !!! ... not by my definition, and most others ...

Most all CV-1 builds that I have seen or heard about have all been budget friendly builds. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Tom Syron

[DINO1]

What ever happened at this race, did any cars show.

Format: Heads-up, all run field, run on pro ladder. Class will be run as a ¼-mile contest utilizing a .400 pro-tree. Courtesy staging and auto-start is in effect. All entries must weigh in at the scales after each qualifying and elimination round. No crew person allowed past scales unless accompanied by Track Official or their designatee. All vehicles must pass NHRA Tech for ET run.
Interior: Full stock appearing car (Headliner, carpet, upholstered door panels, and front seats) preferred, but not mandatory.
Body: The car must retain its original appearance and profiles. Lexan, Fiberglass and Carbon fiber allowed as long as it conforms to the basic body style. Cowl hoods OK.
Street Legal Equipment: Functional headlights, taillights, and brake lights required.
Chassis: Front end suspension limited to bolt on replacement parts only. Rear suspension may be modified to accept ladder bars or four-link. No full tube chassis cars. Firewall can not be modified for engine placement. Tubs and coil-over's permitted. Cross member may be notched for oil pan clearance.
Engine: Standard Pontiac bore spacing only. Cast iron or aluminum engine block allowed. External and dry sump oiling systems are allowed. Any cylinder heads allowed.
Induction: Single or dual carbs allowed. No split carbs. Fuel injection allowed.
Exhaust: All entries are allowed to use tubular headers. The headers must be connected to a working exhaust system with mufflers. Fender exit exhaust or dumps is permitted for turbo applications only.
Transmission: Any transmission allowed. Clutchless manuals allowed.
Tires: Any tire is permitted (see weight penalty section for larger tires).
Fuel: Any type fuel allowed (gasoline, alcohol, E-85, etc.).
Power adder: Limit to one type of power adder.
Weight: 3000lbs minimum- Any N/A combination
3400lbs minimum- Any power adder combination

Weight penalties/breaks/prohibitions:
* 10.5 W slick's or bigger - add 50lbs.
* Wheelie bars- add 50lbs.
* Stock block - deduct 150lbs.
* Stock suspension- deduct 50lbs.
* No intercooler allowed when using methanol
* No N20 with a turbo application
* No E-85 with intercooler
* No alcohol with N20 or intercooler

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by T Syron

Most all CV-1 builds that I have seen or heard about have all been budget friendly builds. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Tom Syron

... you are not wrong, and i am referencing N/A combinations ...

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by DINO1

What ever happened at this race, did any cars show.

Format: Heads-up, all run field, run on pro ladder. Class will be run as a ¼-mile contest utilizing a .400 pro-tree. Courtesy staging and auto-start is in effect. All entries must weigh in at the scales after each qualifying and elimination round. No crew person allowed past scales unless accompanied by Track Official or their designatee. All vehicles must pass NHRA Tech for ET run.
Interior: Full stock appearing car (Headliner, carpet, upholstered door panels, and front seats) preferred, but not mandatory.
Body: The car must retain its original appearance and profiles. Lexan, Fiberglass and Carbon fiber allowed as long as it conforms to the basic body style. Cowl hoods OK.
Street Legal Equipment: Functional headlights, taillights, and brake lights required.
Chassis: Front end suspension limited to bolt on replacement parts only. Rear suspension may be modified to accept ladder bars or four-link. No full tube chassis cars. Firewall can not be modified for engine placement. Tubs and coil-over's permitted. Cross member may be notched for oil pan clearance.
Engine: Standard Pontiac bore spacing only. Cast iron or aluminum engine block allowed. External and dry sump oiling systems are allowed. Any cylinder heads allowed.
Induction: Single or dual carbs allowed. No split carbs. Fuel injection allowed.
Exhaust: All entries are allowed to use tubular headers. The headers must be connected to a working exhaust system with mufflers. Fender exit exhaust or dumps is permitted for turbo applications only.
Transmission: Any transmission allowed. Clutchless manuals allowed.
Tires: Any tire is permitted (see weight penalty section for larger tires).
Fuel: Any type fuel allowed (gasoline, alcohol, E-85, etc.).
Power adder: Limit to one type of power adder.
Weight: 3000lbs minimum- Any N/A combination
3400lbs minimum- Any power adder combination

Weight penalties/breaks/prohibitions:
* 10.5 W slick's or bigger - add 50lbs.
* Wheelie bars- add 50lbs.
* Stock block - deduct 150lbs.
* Stock suspension- deduct 50lbs.
* No intercooler allowed when using methanol
* No N20 with a turbo application
* No E-85 with intercooler
* No alcohol with N20 or intercooler

No offense but this is the most retarded rules i've ever seen.