[kyle_blake]

I met a fellow engine builder the other day who said, " the difference between degreeing in a cam properly versus not doing it all can be the difference between a 10' foot patch and a 50' patch".. LOL

[quicksilver97ta]

Mopar offset cam keys? I used them and found them off as well, not that bad though, and usable in my case.

[tr709]

Timing set that is coming off is cloyes part# 9-3112. Don't know the new one yet.

[jakeshoe]

New timing set (Cloyes as well but not multiple keyway) is on, cam is dead nuts on. 6* BTDC opening, 38 ABDC closing, 106 ICL.

Offset key was a Mr. Gasket 4* offset for Chevy, Pontiac, Chrysler... POS.

It had 10* offset. I double checked it (by accident )

[1967gto]

.030 OVER 455 HYD. CAM Put stock mufflers with stock pipe on 4 tube headers E.T. 13.95 with 3.55 gears . Changed to 3" pipe and mufflers E.T. 12.30 DIFFERENCE!

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by jakeshoe

New timing set (Cloyes as well but not multiple keyway) is on, cam is dead nuts on. 6* BTDC opening, 38 ABDC closing, 106 ICL.

Offset key was a Mr. Gasket 4* offset for Chevy, Pontiac, Chrysler... POS.

It had 10* offset. I double checked it (by accident )

So the ICL is now where they want at 106? and where was it before? should smoke em now! Good Job Jake!

[jakeshoe]

Originally Posted by grandville455

So the ICL is now where they want at 106? and where was it before? should smoke em now! Good Job Jake!

It was at a 109 before. I could get 109 or 102 with the previous timing set.

[gtome]

So when is the next test run???

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by jakeshoe

It was at a 109 before. I could get 109 or 102 with the previous timing set.

HMM I can't see 3* making that much of a difference? From turd to tire burner! will be interesting to see for sure!
I know different engine, but my 455 with the little 2801 cam and one 2.93 legger at 4800 + pounds would still smoke em, stock converter, no slicks and still ran 14.8@94.

course your cam being off and not enough converter could be enough?

[ta man]

I agree 3 degrees isn't much of a difference.It will move the power range down a little.I was expecting this cam to be way out.Has the car been tested with the new sparkplugs?This has been a great post I'll have to go back to the start and reread the questions.

[ta man]

Does the ignition have a full twelve volts or is the resistor still in place?I also see it is a Pertronix Ignition>I've never used one but I've heard of many having problems.

[badassgoat]

Can't wait to hear the outcome. Gut feeling that 3* is not enough to account for all the absent power although I hope it is. We're all pulling for you!

[kyle_blake]

On the topic of sparkplugs and testing, I remember seeing in shops back in the 80's and 90's a spark plug "testing machine". Does anyone recall those? I believe there were even machines designed to prolong life of plugs by cleaning them. I suppose customers could have the plugs cleaned if they didn't have enough money to replace them during a tune up but really the labor cost to clean versus just by new wouldn't make sense. Maybe it was to clean just one plug or something. Some seasoned mechanics would know what I'm talking about.

From what I gather to test that a plug is firing you take a timing gun and attach it to each plug wire and the light should consistantly flash based on rpm. I used this method to fix my 88 for mustang 5.0L when the engine felt slugish and a miss. Turns out the wire was dead!

Lastly with respect to another ignition test I've done, is checking the resistance of a spark plug wires's using an ohm meter.

I believe Jake would of noticed if a wire was bad or spark plug was bad during a road test? Thats my guess.

I guess thats the beauty of this thread. You could take any care, run all the tests that you see in this thread and you'd have a real solid idea of what sorta performance you can get and most importantly reliablity!

Checking the 12v thing is a great idea too as well!

[grivera]

Very intriguing thread. I'm hooked, almost like a suspense thriller...

[jakeshoe]

I don't think 3* is the problem either. We did change plugs before the last test drive. It has R43S plugs in it now IIRC.

The timing cover and water pump are buttoned back up. I got sidetracked today looking for a lost key and Tues. and Thursdays I have to leave early to take kids to ball practice so we should have an update soon.

[jakeshoe]

I also wanted to add.

I have a KV meter that reads the kilovolts on each plug wire. It gives me a good idea what is going on with each cylinder. A "scope" but only one cylinder at a time.
A small handheld meter that you hook the end of the antenna on the plug wire.

It's a pretty useful tool. It will pick up anything causing a different load on a cylinder.

For example it usually reads about 12-18 KV. If it reads higher or lower that cylinder is probably missing.
I had a customer bring in a truck the other day with a RamJet 350 chevy in it. It had NO power. It didn't sound "right" but it didn't sound as bad as it actually was.
I checked timing, which the previous shop had really gotten way out of the ballpark, checked fuel pressure, it was in range.
Checked the KV's and had 28-30 KV average across most cylinders but some were lower.

I started pulling injector harness plugs to see what we had going on.
I had 4 dead cyls.
1, 4, 6, and 7.

Looking at the harness diagram, those 4 cylinders were on the same injector driver. Pulled the ECM connector and found a pin not seated.

Repaired the pin and it was fixed.

I took 1 hour to actually repair a problem that 2 other shops and a GM dealer couldn't find with over $1000 in labor charges.

[Billz428]

[badassgoat]

Bravo Jake. Great find, fix and job!

Hey if GM had a friggin' clue they wouldn't be bankrupt and there would STILL be a division called Pontiac. I just read the other day that the new CEO of GM was the IMBECILE whose claim to fame was that he was responsible for the Aztek. LOL You can't make this stuff up.

[tr709]

Nice find jake!

Well I'm stuck in a conference room all day, eagerly awaiting updates. Jake let me know what that first test drive is like.

[tr709]

Everything is back together and Jake is making some final tweeks. Road test tomorrow and I'll report back.

Also looking to replace the performer intake with a factory cast iron, Thoughts?