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#41
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I have tried everything I can so far with no success. The yellow glaze in the cylinders is still there and still chugs oil after the seafoam and ac delco top engine cleaner. My final attempt before I take it all apart is the old Bon Ami trick. I figure its worth a shot. Here is a thread here on the subject and searching the web has many other examples.
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=574076&page=4 |
#42
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I would not do that unless you where running chrome face rings, if the rings are a plasma face now you will ruin them and then need to pull the motor down anyway.
Bite the bullet and do it the right way.
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#43
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You think these plasma moly rings in there now could be reused after I take it apart and re hone as it sits?
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#44
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I would recommend replacing the piston rings with a fresh hone job. I realize it's a couple hundred extra bucks to do that. But you want this to be the last time it's apart. It's one more variable to remove. IMO, you want a channel molly top ring, not just a plasma molly sprayed ring. If you look at the top ring, it should look like an Oreo cookie. Darker top and bottom with a distinct center area a more silver molly color. This is the design where the face is laser cut and Molly material is deposited in the channel. Sealed Power, (Speed Pro) and Total Seal offer these premium rings. Other brands as well. Plasma sprayed rings wear off rather quickly and your back to base cast iron. Especially on a rough hone job. Buy good rings.
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#45
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Quote:
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#46
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No, It's WAY too much work to chance using the same rings again. But new quality rings, I prefer Total Seal myself, and then have the block hones again at the machine shop. Let them know what rings you went with, so they hone it to the finish needed for the rings.
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62' Lemans, Nostalgia Super Stock, 541 CI, IA2 block, billet 4.5" crank, Ross, Wide port Edelbrocks, Gustram intake, 2 4150 style BLP carbs, 2.10 Turbo 400, 9" w/4:30 gears, 8.76 @153, 3100lbs |
#47
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I am not sure what you had in mind for your repair. Of course the best repair is a torque plate final hone. But if you just had this engine honed in a shop and want to de-glaze with a ball hone and reassemble, I am personally OK with that. Ball hones come in various grit counts from 120 grit to around 320. For Molly rings a ball hone with 280-320 grit is what I would recommend.
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#48
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I think they are glazed. The bore scope definitely made everything look worse. These walls are very smooth. I still need to look at the ring orientation.
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#49
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Even if you can hardly feel any of those vertical scratches that are showing up on the cylinder walls, they are certainly not helping with oil control, and they will also stop the rings from rotating as they need to.
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#50
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When you take the pistons out, double check the way the rings were installed. Especially the second ring. I see you are gas ported with vertical holes. This is one of the reasons I personally don't use that style piston. They do tend to allow some oil into the combustion chamber if the second ring is not a secondary scraper style. They also require a very round cylinder as the rings have a difficult time dealing with an out-of round situation. The second ring should have a little step on the OD of the ring facing down to act as a secondary scraper. This should help. You might want to make a call to Total Seal and talk to them. Describe the situation and that you have the engine down for a second time to try and seal it up. See what they say about ring selection and their recommendation.
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#51
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I just got my block and pistons back from the machine shop. The checked it out and said the finish of the bores were rough. They re-honed it and got me new moly top piston rings with a napier second ring. Their bore finish is a lot smoother than what I started out with.
Its still hard to say what actually happened. I think a possibility is the rocker studs were leaking and it just put too much oil into the cylinders to cause the glazing? I guess we will see what happens this time around! |
#52
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When I see gas ported Pistons I think of light tension rings that need cylinder pressure ( a good amount of throttle open ) to seal up well.
What tension rings where in this motor before this last rebuild?
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#53
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They were just total seal 1/16" classic race rings so I do not believe they were low tension.
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#54
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I finally got it all back together and out on the road. I made sure to get the engine on the road and loaded up quickly. I didnt tach it out yet but made moderate pulls 2500 to 5000rpm. It runs very well, pulls hard, no smoke on throttle or deceleration. However, it does seem to smoke a little at idle and the breathers have smoke coming out evenly at idle. Maybe it needs more break in? I just have two breathers on it nothing else. Its not pushing the dipstick out. Is there anything special to do for crankcase venting with my vertical gas ported pistons?
What do you guys think about these plugs? These were taken out at idle. |
#55
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The new rings are definitely seated by now. I am still getting smoke out the exhaust at idle and every once in a while, a big plume on a hot start up. I sent the bore scope down the intake and I see oil on the back of some intake valves. To me that must mean it's the guide/seals. Or possibly are they good and its my old E heads poor oil draining, pooling up and overwhelming the seals? Are there any tests I can perform while its still together in the car?
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#56
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Did you get the rocker studs sealed? I also notice you don t use a vacuum pump. Gas ports and I assume low tension oil rings make that a must.
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#57
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The studs are sealed and the rings are not low tensions
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#58
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What intake valves did you look at, the rear two on each bank?
Did you view number 1 or 2? If you amount of oil delivery IS overwhelming the intake valve seals then it’s manly going to be taking place on the two rear cylinders on each bank due to the rearward angle the motor in the car and acceleration.
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#59
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I ran it, got it all warmed up and shut it off and sent the camera back in the intake. I did not see anything dripping down the valve stems in the rear or fronts. There was some wetness in the intake and back of valves. Maybe just fuel?
If I had too much piston to wall clearance would this thing smoke all the time? |
#60
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If your P/W clearance was more than recommended and your ring gaps were correct it's unlikely it would smoke. I have run P/W clearance of 0.009" with TRW forged pistons and it didn't smoke.
__________________
1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
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