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Old 02-19-2024, 09:44 AM
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Default Oil control rings

Update on my issue with oil being pushed out the dipstick.

Builder has just said he's found a problem with the oil control rings tension being too weak. Could this be the reason for excessive blowby into the crankcase?

He's ordered a different set of rings this time, hoping that's the fix.

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Old 02-19-2024, 11:26 AM
chiefbigb chiefbigb is offline
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I do not think that is your problem. Does your engine have the proper guide tube inside the pan for the dip stick? I have seen some engines over the years with piston pins that came out. Broken ring lands and they were not pumping oil out the dipstick tube.

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Old 02-19-2024, 12:04 PM
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I run a 9LB oil ring with a vacuum pump

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Old 02-19-2024, 12:29 PM
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How do your plugs look?

If excessive oil was getting into the chamber then that would be seen on the plugs, but on top of that oil getting in there will lower the fuels Octane rating possibly by a lot.
If that's the case then the motor could be detonating at a given throttle opening and detonation will unseat the rings making for blowby and abnormal crankcase pressure.

I am not getting the warm and fuzzy's from the capabilities of your builder I must say at this point!

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Old 02-19-2024, 12:29 PM
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To put things in simple terms

oil controls rings do what? control oil.!

Rings 1 and 2 control pressure

oil is a static creature it just gets knocked / pushed around

pressure is different high seeks out low

high pressure in a crankcase will seek out low atmospheric pressure by exiting the engine any way it can usually by breathers if the breathers cant flow this given volume the dipstick gets ejected along with oil that is frothed / misted by crankshaft

other than pressure i guess the dipstick could be forced out physically by interference with the rotating assy

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Old 02-19-2024, 02:02 PM
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Plugs were not wet from oil, just blackened from running rich.

Dipstick isn't touching anything rotating.

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Old 02-20-2024, 12:05 PM
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I was going through some pics and thought of you. Here is a pic of my IA2 block and another P/Y member with the breathers. At minimum you should consider holes in that valley area while the engine block is apart to do the rings. Just saying. I'm willing to bet you'll need to run a vacuum pump.
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Old 02-20-2024, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckies76ta View Post
I was going through some pics and thought of you. Here is a pic of my IA2 block and another P/Y member with the breathers. At minimum you should consider holes in that valley area while the engine block is apart to do the rings. Just saying. I'm willing to bet you'll need to run a vacuum pump.
What's the reasoning behind doing that? Those don't look like E-heads lol

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74 Grandville 2Dr 455 c.i 4550#
2011 1.60 60 ft,7.33@94.55-11.502@117.74


2017, 74 firebird -3600 lbs (all bests) 1.33 60 ft, 6.314@108.39 9.950@134.32
M/T 275/60 ET SS Drag Radial

2023,(Pontiac 505) 1.27 60 ft, 5.97@112.86, 9.48@139.31.... 275/60 Radial Pro's
  #9  
Old 02-20-2024, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandville455 View Post
What's the reasoning behind doing that? Those don't look like E-heads lol

Hi: If your talking about the breathers, I don't know. It's not my engine block.

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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, SD Performance E-head, Solid roller 3600 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick.
Best so far 9.95@134 mph. 1.43 60 ft.
76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend,
468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh.
  #10  
Old 02-20-2024, 01:38 PM
541 goat 541 goat is offline
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I think your problem is the rich condition or the bores not honed and cleaned properly or possibly improper break in or combination of all.

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Old 02-20-2024, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckies76ta View Post
I was going through some pics and thought of you. Here is a pic of my IA2 block and another P/Y member with the breathers. At minimum you should consider holes in that valley area while the engine block is apart to do the rings. Just saying. I'm willing to bet you'll need to run a vacuum pump.

Where those breather fittings are, I already have the holes. By putting the breathers in there, what are the benefits over just holes?

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Old 02-21-2024, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 461-69bird View Post
Where those breather fittings are, I already have the holes. By putting the breathers in there, what are the benefits over just holes?

Like I said in previous post I Don't Know. The dudes with the Brain power on here will know. I just posted pics for your reference. Hoping you make out OK. Oh and your welcome.

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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, SD Performance E-head, Solid roller 3600 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick.
Best so far 9.95@134 mph. 1.43 60 ft.
76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend,
468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh.
  #13  
Old 02-21-2024, 03:53 AM
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Okay thanks Chuck

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Old 03-11-2024, 10:47 AM
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What's happening with your engine? Any updates? Thanks

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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, SD Performance E-head, Solid roller 3600 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick.
Best so far 9.95@134 mph. 1.43 60 ft.
76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend,
468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh.
  #15  
Old 03-11-2024, 12:42 PM
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Hi Chuck, engine has been re honed and new rings, just waiting for him to get it on the dyno to break them in again.

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472, Bullet SFT, KRE 85cc, Victor, 850xp, TH400, TSP 9.5" 4800, 3.90 10 bolt, Viking DA rears, QA1 single fronts, 3558lbs. best to date 11.14@120
  #16  
Old 03-11-2024, 12:50 PM
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Thanks. Wishing you great success with it.

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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, SD Performance E-head, Solid roller 3600 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick.
Best so far 9.95@134 mph. 1.43 60 ft.
76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend,
468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh.
  #17  
Old 03-28-2024, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefbigb View Post
I do not think that is your problem. Does your engine have the proper guide tube inside the pan for the dip stick?
Hi Chief, sorry I missed your reply above originally. What is your thinking by this?

Thanks
Rick

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472, Bullet SFT, KRE 85cc, Victor, 850xp, TH400, TSP 9.5" 4800, 3.90 10 bolt, Viking DA rears, QA1 single fronts, 3558lbs. best to date 11.14@120
  #18  
Old 03-28-2024, 08:10 AM
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I would think that his concern is that if the wrong lower block tube is used that the dip stick will not be the proper depth in the oil.

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #19  
Old 03-29-2024, 11:18 AM
chiefbigb chiefbigb is offline
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I have seen the inside guide missing on rebuilt engines. Oil capacity is incorrect. Not sure if the crank can throw enough around to push it up the tube at high rpms.

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  #20  
Old 03-29-2024, 05:06 PM
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Chief, funny you say that as I had the same thought yesterday.
Engine is back together and leakdown is better, 10% on all 8. Made more hp and tq than before too.
Oil came out the dipstick still but when we put a long hose over the tube so someone could check for pressure while in the dyno room on a pull, nothing came out and there was no pressure either.
I'm going to cap off the tube and keep an eye out for any leaks elsewhere. Hopefully as there's no pressure it will be ok.
It made 546hp and 597tq @32 deg.

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