[HWYSTR455]

So an upgrade to a forged crank in the stroker kit is $599. It's got to be at least that to prep a factory crank. Clean, inspect, mag, turn, polish, and balance.

You're doing an engine to last, that's a small price to pay for the comfy feeling.


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[JLMounce]

Just catching up on this thread after being gone most of the weekend. Great discussion as always.

HWYSTR I do think it's important to note on your last message that the upgrade cost as part of a rotating assembly is only about 600 for the forged crank. That's on top of the nominal cost of the cast crank however. Piecing together just the rods and pistons without a completed kit may end up being cheaper.

However, it's a good point that pricing everything out makes sense. If the difference is negligible, it's likely worth the squeeze.

[grivera]

Also, it’s been mentioned on here that some of the balanced assemblies may still need balancing.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by grivera

Also, it’s been mentioned on here that some of the balanced assemblies may still need balancing.

I hear this mostly about some of the stuff you get off of summit. Pre-packaged SCAT, Eagle stuff etc.

I've not really heard anything along those lines for the Butler assemblies.

I did a quick bit of math and doing a Butler assembly with a forged crank is about $1100.00 more than purchasing their Rebuilder kit with pistons and rods standalone. It's not apples to apples as I priced molnar rods, but didn't select the molnar rod upgrade on the assembly. Actual cost difference is probably closer to $1400.00

This engine will never have any nitrous on it and I've let go of the idea of building any type of boosted engine. I just don't need it with how I use the car. Heck, if the engine already had a decent steel rod in it, I'd probably just send out the heads and intake for porting. I'm not looking for gobs more power than I already have.

I believe as the car sits it has a 12.90 in it with a slick and some tuning. Not bad in 8000 ft air.

[HWYSTR455]

Yes, understand that, but also understand that you will not get the price break on a kit if you stick with the OE crank.

A cast crank is like $400. That's crank alone. You still have to prep it like a used OE crank.

Rods are in the $400-$600 range. Pistons in the $700-$800 range. A stroker kit is @ $2100 range.

But sure, price it out, I would think everyone would do that to have a valid comparison.

Include machine work in the comparison, that will make it a more accurate comparison.


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[HWYSTR455]

Tree'd me!


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[PunchT37]

Run your factory crank, IF it checks out. ARP main studs, 4340 rods with a good full float piston, and you`re good to go.

[tom s]

This is my latest crank to go in my next engine.Forged,3in main 4.21 stroke BBC Rod Js.Been lightened(2 slugs of Mallory).Bull nosed leading edge and knife edge trailing edge.No clue who made it.Marine Crankshaft checked it out and gave it a OK.Tom

[65 Lamnas]

No disagreement here that a factory nodular 455 crank is strong and up to the task. The ONLY thing that would make me a wee bit apprehensive is the sheer number of cycles on it. I would trust a modern day forged crank and have better peace of mind with it than a ~50 year old crank....but that's just me. If that same crank had been in one of my engines for most of its life, I might think differently about it.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by 65 Lamnas

No disagreement here that a factory nodular 455 crank is strong and up to the task. The ONLY thing that would make me a wee bit apprehensive is the sheer number of cycles on it. I would trust a modern day forged crank and have better peace of mind with it than a ~50 year old crank....but that's just me. If that same crank had been in one of my engines for most of its life, I might think differently about it.

Yeah that's always something to consider. I only know the history of this engine in my possession. The previous owner of the car had it built shortly before I purchased it.

It's an XJ code so the 455 was likely in a luxo-barge in its early life. That doesn't mean it wasn't beat on, but probably a family hauler type deal. Engine is .030 over currently so I'm assuming the crank is 10/10 as well.

[HWYSTR455]

A luxo-barge could still have been abused by a number of overheating cycles, and towing. Or sitting in a field in hot summers/cold winters.

I dunno, I used to feel OE cranks were fine to use, OE rods too. Now since the stuff is readily available and affordable, I just eliminate as many possible risks in any build.

I would even go a cast cranks before using an OE.

A machine shop could easily miss signs when checking the OE parts too. I just don't trust anything anymore.

If, just if, there is that chance of failure, and it does fail, I would beat myself up over not replacing an OE prepped part. And not spending that nominal extra money.

Reminder. The cost could be not just the amount you spent the 1st time, but the cost of doing it all over again combined.

Just how I feel, and personal opinion.

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[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

Run your factory crank, IF it checks out. ARP main studs, 4340 rods with a good full float piston, and you`re good to go.

^^^^^^This! If you are concerned about durability have the crank nitrided once it has been re-ground and the strokes equalized.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

A luxo-barge could still have been abused by a number of overheating cycles, and towing. Or sitting in a field in hot summers/cold winters.

I dunno, I used to feel OE cranks were fine to use, OE rods too. Now since the stuff is readily available and affordable, I just eliminate as many possible risks in any build.

I would even go a cast cranks before using an OE.

A machine shop could easily miss signs when checking the OE parts too. I just don't trust anything anymore.

If, just if, there is that chance of failure, and it does fail, I would beat myself up over not replacing an OE prepped part. And not spending that nominal extra money.

Reminder. The cost could be not just the amount you spent the 1st time, but the cost of doing it all over again combined.

Just how I feel, and personal opinion.

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Most of the Chinese cast cranks are JUNK. This isn’t an opinion; it is FACT. I’ve seen too many NEW off shore cranks that had so much taper and O/R that we were grinding them .030 under just to get them in spec Want to talk about the ones that were .040 out of stroke? The BRAND NEW we had to scrap because of this? Even using a .005 above stroke/.005 below stroke criteria we couldn’t correct this much out of stroke AND use .030 under bearings. My old friend and mentor had an expression he used a lot: “New doesn’t mean good”. Just because a part is “new” doesn’t mean it isn’t junk. OE Pontiac cranks should be subjected to NDT ( Non Destructive Testing) before reusing them. As Mike has said many times they were producing nearly 1,000hp in Grocery Getter with an OE Pontiac crank. A properly prepared and machined Pontiac engine OE crank is capable of handling 600hp on the street. If you are concerned about longevity, cryo treat then nitride the crank after re-grinding and equalizing the strokes along with regrinding the radii on all journals.

[Gach]

Here’s a good one guy buys 400 for his Firebird and guess what he finds, broken cracked. Funny thing is the whole crank turns freely but when he goes to take it out, its broken in half.

https://youtu.be/333_4uFcWfU?si=zFRnSPp5zBZKWBYW

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Most of the Chinese cast cranks are JUNK. This isn’t an opinion; it is FACT. I’ve seen too many NEW off shore cranks that had so much taper and O/R that we were grinding them .030 under just to get them in spec Want to talk about the ones that were .040 out of stroke? The BRAND NEW we had to scrap because of this? Even using a .005 above stroke/.005 below stroke criteria we couldn’t correct this much out of stroke AND use .030 under bearings. My old friend and mentor had an expression he used a lot: “New doesn’t mean good”. Just because a part is “new” doesn’t mean it isn’t junk. OE Pontiac cranks should be subjected to NDT ( Non Destructive Testing) before reusing them. As Mike has said many times they were producing nearly 1,000hp in Grocery Getter with an OE Pontiac crank. A properly prepared and machined Pontiac engine OE crank is capable of handling 600hp on the street. If you are concerned about longevity, cryo treat then nitride the crank after re-grinding and equalizing the strokes along with regrinding the radii on all journals.

My understanding is they corrected the crank issues in like 2015 or so, but could be mistaken. Regardless, everything needs to be checked thoroughly.

And that was an Eagle crank I bet?


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[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Gach

Here’s a good one guy buys 400 for his Firebird and guess what he finds, broken cracked. Funny thing is the whole crank turns freely but when he goes to take it out, its broken in half.

https://youtu.be/333_4uFcWfU?si=zFRnSPp5zBZKWBYW

Looks like a cheaply rebuilt engine, dreaded multi-eyebrow-nightmare pistons and a mix-match batch of rods. Probably had zero machine work done to the block or crank.

That would be my guess anyway....


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[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Gach

Here’s a good one guy buys 400 for his Firebird and guess what he finds, broken cracked. Funny thing is the whole crank turns freely but when he goes to take it out, its broken in half.

https://youtu.be/333_4uFcWfU?si=zFRnSPp5zBZKWBYW

Looks like a cheaply rebuilt engine, dreaded multi-eyebrow-nightmare pistons and a mix-match batch of rods. Probably had zero machine work done to the block or crank. But still suggests a forged would be a better choice.

That would be my guess anyway....


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[Cliff R]

My understanding is they corrected the crank issues in like 2015 or so, but could be mistaken. Regardless, everything needs to be checked thoroughly.

+2

NEVER assume anything with any part, especially if it from China or any other Country known for making parts that are sub-par and often don't make the grade for the purpose they were intended for. I've rejected a number of offshore cast cranks over the years after my crank grinder told me that by the time he got them where they needed to be I could have had Moldex make a forging for the project for less money!

I've also assembled a couple of engines using stroker "kits" that ended up being fine. I'm still not a fan of the offshore cast cranks so over the years avoided them like the plague. I've seen just enough problems and failures with them to steer clear of that deal.

I will endorse the forgings however, but you still need to check them closely in every area. The few I've installed here were spot on for fit and finish and still surviving just fine after many years of hard use.......

[HWYSTR455]

Exactly. Forged, never look back, even for something that will not be 'raced'.


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[HWYSTR455]

Exactly. Forged, never look back, even for something that will not be 'raced'.

People still argue about it though...


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