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#1
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One shot at this
I have received a lot of feedback both on here and in DM about my engine project to replace the one I blew up. I am at the point I am getting ready to pickup the block and do the assembly. Does anyone see anything glaring before I go forward.
72 455 .30 over zero decked torque plate honed Block professionally prepped, deburred and tapped for screw in oil plugs Rotating assembly from Butler. Forged Ross pistons and crank and forged h beam 6.8 rods. Heads and mains studded Edelbrock 87cc round port, ported to 325cfm by butler. Comp Cams 96 springs. 1.5 roller tip Comp Cams rockers Crower 60919 cam with Crower cam saver lifters all checked for proper machining and a perfect set made up out of 3 sets. I do not want Rhoads Lifters. Compression is 10.25.1 Dougs ceramic headers Performer RPM Brawler 750 CFM mechanical secondaries Summit RTR with lightest advance curve. MSD street fire box mainly for the rev limiter TKO600 ahead of 3.70 gears and 26 inch tall tires. Am I gonna be happy for a fun regular driver? Probably driven 4-5 times a week all year long. This is my last chance for a while if this goes south.
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#2
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The performer RPM intake will create a clearance problem if you go with a quadrajet
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#3
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QFT Brawler
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#4
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We're the main saddles align honed???
Some here say to make sure of this when using main studs. The brand of studs sometimes also make a difference. The roller tip rockers, with the pivot ball instead of full roller type can have issues with the pivot balls. I've use those types of rockers on Chevrolets with no issues, but have heard of problems galling the balls on Pontiacs. The consensus best rockers are either the stainless vrowers or Harland Sharp rocjets. Which are aluminum, only. Your head flow is huge for a driver. I have zero knowledge for concerned direction. Will be curious what others say. What rear end gear do you have??? Scrub that block, thoroughly. Make sure you clean the oil passages in the block and crank, also!!! Make sure you use some sort of Moly lube on the cam lobes and lifter faces. Use just enough to thinly coat the lobes and lifter faces. Some here worry about using too much causing oil filter to get plugged, I have never seen much moly in a cut open filter. I typically change the "break in" filter and it's oil after a couple of hours, not the oil in the pan. Do you plan to run a type of oil. That's specific for flat tappet cams, or a proper additive for such? There seems to be several brands of oil and additives these days. That we I'll work. Be sure to check the front oil passage screw in plugs. If the holes get tapped too deep, they can restrict or block oil flow to the front 2 lifters. Use some type of lube on the timing chain. The Crower cam lube wo I ld work. Check lifter upon installation, to make sure the spin freely in their bores. Especially check the bores with a finger, JUST to make sure the tops and bottoms of the lifter b I res didn't get dinged some how, causing them to possibly not spin.
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1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
#5
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I don’t see where with all the machine work you listed done to the the block where all 16 lifter bores where very well checked for ware in at least 4 spans and in two different heights in Lew of not using a new lifter to check the clearance.
Cam and lifter wise you want to only use American made lifters and I would consider not one, not one new lifter or cam lobe good until I checked them all. There is a great cam and lifter post over on the speed talk site. Most all on shore made cam and lifters have the needed hardness, but the machine work can be a crap shoot! One fellow posted about buying a bulk tray of 128 lifters and found this. 18 where low in hardness.checking in at 40 instead of 50. 37 had a odd finish and did not have all the needed crown for them to spin good . Some others from another batch had too big of a chamfer around the base edge. Mass produced off shore cams have been seen with little to non of the needed taper to spin even a 100% perfect lifter. In short take nothing for granted these days! Beware of running the lightest advance springs, possible, as all too often they fatigue fast and then above 4000 rpm loose control of the advance curvevand then the timing bounces both high and low and before you know it the motor is backfiring thru the carb and you have ignition knock and your then your well on the way to spinning rod bearings or worse! I know this expensive lesson from having been there in person!
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I do stuff for reasons. Last edited by 25stevem; 12-25-2022 at 09:52 AM. |
#6
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Have the shop take a close look at that 455!cam tunnel.We have had a few issues in 455 blocks.Tom
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#7
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Personally I'd use a higher rocker arm ratio.
With your proposed 1.5 ratio and the resulting 0.470" valve lift your not coming close to your cylinder heads potential. I suspect the 325 cfm rating on the heads is at 0.700" lift. .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#8
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Also since your swapping over to main studs from bolts the line bore needs to be checked out since they load the main webs different.
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I do stuff for reasons. |
The Following User Says Thank You to 25stevem For This Useful Post: | ||
#9
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“A perfect set of lifters from 3 sets” and it hasn’t been started yet.
And that is not a bad sign? 96 valve springs? Comp springs have 3 numbers in the part number |
#10
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https://butlerperformance.com/i-3164...tegory:1234799
Get yourself a Christmas present. Merry Christmas! |
#11
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3.70 gears, everything will be align bored for spec, the cam tunnel on my last one had to be honed and oversized bearings installed. Wayne has a way of checking the bottoms of the lifter for runout and he took 3 boxes and made one perfect set of lifters that should spin perfectly on the cam. these are the same studs both main and head that I used before but different block obviously so he will be setting it up for that block. I plan to switch rockers in the future but Crower was adamant about not using anything over that 1.5 until break in was over. I should have no clearance issues with the hood. I was running a Torker II with a spacer before. Keep the suggestions coming.
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#12
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As posted it is important with heads ported to that level to run more lift after break in is done.
Your drivability will suffer from low port velocity and not to mention peak hp. Passing greater levels of air flow down the manifold. and head runners makes for higher port Speed / velocity and a certain minimum level of air speed guarantees good throttle response.
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I do stuff for reasons. |
The Following User Says Thank You to 25stevem For This Useful Post: | ||
#13
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Watch your spring pressure with a heavy 2.190" Intake valve diameter. Longer stem length for a tall installed height ?
Watch your port match. Butler recommended intake gasket has a tall 2.350" port opening. As cast the Performer RPM intake port exit opening is 2.06" tall. ( related thread regarding the port match: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...pted+flow+path ) .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 12-25-2022 at 01:33 PM. |
#14
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Quote:
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Jeff |
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#15
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The block will be returned to me completely clean and ready for assembly. I will just have to do a double check. The machinist is Wayne Sless. He is listed by Pontiac International Underground as a top builder and also the builder of my previous engine. Block prep was amazing, just driver stupidity.
Someone said my heads will fliw too much and hurt me????? How’s my daily driving gonna be?
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#16
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If I interpret this correctly SteveM says your throttle response may suffer due to low port velocity.
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '64 LeMans 400/461, #16 Heads, HR 230/236, TKO600, 9inch Rear, 3.89 gears (Traded) '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: Non-running project |
#17
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I made a fiberglass mold off of the Chevy base and made a part from that which I grafted into a '67 Ram Air pan for my '66 GTO back in the 90's. And then later when I went to a Street Dominator, I just used a 1" airhorn spacer (or maybe it was 1.25" tall?), so that I could keep using the drop-base air cleaner. Last edited by hgerhardt; 12-25-2022 at 09:01 PM. Reason: add URL |
#18
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Sounds almost identical to the motor that I just started on. Same CID, same heads (mine are not ported), I went with an Ultradyne 231/239 cam and 1.65 full rollers. FST 850 carb, Hedman 1.75” headers. Muncie M22 and 3:60 Quick 9” rear. I applaud your excellent taste in Pontiac street motors! LOL
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#19
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Given the fact that the cross section area of the intake ports of conventional Pontiac Kauffman and Edlebrock heads are on the small side, very close to what would be considered decent for a small block chevy, and they are sitting on a much larger 455 with a 4.210 crank, you would have a really hard time hurting any drivability or low speed performance. Second of all, you've already had this engine running before with those heads and you commented many times on how powerful it was. Ask yourself, but I think you know the answer. In a nut shell, I wouldn't even worry about it |
#20
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You can’t compare minimum port area between a SBC and a Pontiac by comparing there port volume because a SBC head has a intake runner that’s over a inch longer then a Pontiac.
It’s a long way from being apples to apples! If your running any of the common aftermarket streetable heads on your motor and your not running at least .525” lift then your leaving power ( TQ and HP ) that you payed and maybe waited dearly for on the table big time. It’s really that simple. Especially with the stroke of a 455 that is air starved at any rpm above 2400! It’s all about the higher level of average gas speed ramming the cylinders harder.
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I do stuff for reasons. Last edited by 25stevem; 12-26-2022 at 01:37 AM. |
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