[bob d]

Just received my September The Legend mag. 2004, 2005, and 2006 GTO'S are included. 8 took factory concours factory originals. Need input to what you think.

[dhcarguy]

Originally Posted by bob d

Just received my September The Legend mag. 2004, 2005, and 2006 GTO'S are included. 8 took factory concours factory originals. Need input to what you think.

Although I never considered those to be true "GTO"'s. They were sold by Pontiac and they are getting older and older. To keep them in concours condition should be recognized.

[mgarblik]

I have to agree. The oldest model, a 2004 is 19 years old now. Given the build quality and interior pieces, it would be a challenge to have a mint condition one now. People were reporting pulled and torn open seams in the leather seats after 2-3 years of service. Seems like only yesterday they were new cars.

[sdbob]

Yes agree on keeping new looking.

[TAKerry]

If they are GTO's then they should be considered in the judging.

[Verdoro 68]

Almost 20 years old, most have a bunch of wear and tear. They’re hard to keep nice, seems fine to me.

[71GP76TA]

They should include G8's too.

[72projectbird]

The 04-06 GTOs are a conundrum among Pontiac people. Most Pontiac guys make the argument they're "real" Pontiacs, but as a F-Body guy I've always heard the argument that the 82-02 Trans Am's were "corporate" cars and not true Pontiacs.

To me it doesn't matter, but the double standard is amusing.

[mgarblik]

I actually had not really heard that. In my tiny Pontiac world, "real" Pontiacs were not built after 1981 when the Pontiac V-8 was ended. To me, if it has a Pontiac badge on it, it's a Pontiac, period. That includes winners like the T1000, Aztek, Bonneville Diesels, Phoenix wagon with wood grain trim, and many other clinkers. You have to accept the good with the bad. At the TA Nationals, the 4th gen cars were the largest group by observation. 04-06 GTO has the Pontiac name on it and was sold at Pontiac dealerships. No different than a Vibe. Seems GTOAA needs to treat it like any other GTO. We all have our favorites.

[JSchmitz]

Pontiac made means it's a Pontiac. Do the 403 Olds TA's get the axe too?

[MIAGIMAN]

I had a car at the concourse unrestored class this year. The judges spent 1 hr and 35 minutes checking the car out, the first to be judged. At the meeting we were told 20 minutes per car. (a story by itself) A few guys at the show asked me if they were looking for drugs!
Back to 04-06 GTO's, My opinion, not that it matters, is that they are GTO's, but should not be grouped with 50 plus year GTO's. There should be a class for the 04-06 Goats. Believe me the # of 50+ year unrestored cars is rare in itself. Looking at the article I see 6. I feel that if the GTO association groups them altogether than they should group the original ownership awards to include 04-06 GTO's too. They are definitely a variant of what a GTO started out to be in 64.
It was definitely nice to see a younger crowd involved in the hobby

[TAKerry]

I do agree that they should be judged in their own class, but a Pontiac is a Pontiac. I have been to some shows that first and second gen firebirds-T/A's are put together. I think those should be separated.

[Mcronk]

I owned a 1989 TTA Anniversary car for a while. It always seemed to be the redheaded step child among Pontiac people. It had the Buick Turbo engine.

I was in the Concourse Modified portion of the show this year with my 68 Tempest Custom. It was not that long ago that GTOAA did not allow any other A body Pontiac in their show other than a GTO or GT-37. Even though the GTO started as an option on the Tempest and went back to being a option on the Pontiac A body in 1972. In my opinion, including Tempests and the 04-06 cars is a step in the right direction. There is also a class in Popular Vote for other Pontiacs of all models. I currently own two GTOs a 68 and 67 and have owned a 04 GTO.

They were sold by Pontiac as Pontiac vehicles and were badged as GTOs and should be included. I have no problem with the 04-06 cars being grouped with the older cars. Each car is judged based on its own merits not against the other cars in the class. Yes it may be a little "easier" to find a unrestored 04-06 car. However like the early GTOs many were modified and hot rodded and yes the rear upper seat always seemed to have issues at the seams. For original owner criteria the 04-06 cars do not yet qualify. Over time they will be phased in like they were for concours juding. To me these shows are all about seeing great cars, meeting great people, and getting some recognition of the hard work we put into our vehicles. I believe I was the only non GTO to receive a Gold award in the concours classes.

[MIAGIMAN]

FWIW, Hard to compare a 50+ year car to a 19 year old car, like an mac apple to a gala apple, or a 20 year old guy /gal to a 60+ one, sure it's a GTO, sure it's a guy/gal, and a apple, they should just be in a separate class when it comes to classifying, especially a unrestored car. I can go out today and buy a unrestored 04-06 Goat all day long, try that with a 50+ year old car, good luck, everyone has an opinion that's what makes conversation.