[jhein]

Does anyone now about this place?

They have this interesting M22Z setup. It's a wide ratio with a lower 1st and 2nd gear. It seems kinda cool. When compared to the standard gears in a M20, for my car with a 3.31 rear it would basically give me the equivalent of a 3.90 rear in 1st and a 3.55 ish in 2nd. Then 3rd and 4th are the same as a standard M20. Seems like the best of both worlds.

https://midwestmuncie.com/product/au...ear-end-gears/

[i82much]

I have an ultrawide muncie with "geometric" ratios behind a 505, in front of a 3.54 dana 60 on 28" tires. It's perfect for everything but the freeway. I cruise at 65 comfortably and just stick to the back roads, which I prefer anyway. I got mine from Jody's transmissions.

If I were doing weekend road trips on the interstate I'd add a gear vendors or get a five or six speed.

[Formulajones]

They're neat, but I don't want to pay $2700 for them.

If I'm going to invest that kind of money in a transmission, makes more sense to me to just spring for the TKX, enjoy both a lower 1st and 2nd gear, but also now have a .68 overdrive for comfy cruising. It's the best of both and will work fine with your 3.31's. Plus you'll have the added strength of the TKX, you aren't going to break that one.

I think the TKX is only a few hundred more, about $3200. Shorten your driveshaft and a shifter and you're about there.

[gtospieg]

The TKX can come with a 2.87 or 3.27 first gear. The 2.87 will give you a 9.499 final drive in 1st and then you can actually cruise on the highway with a final drive of 2.25 in 5th. I spoke with Modern Drive Line last week and they told me the TKX was $2700. So I can't see any real reason not to go that route if you're buying a trans anyway.

[Flattrack88]

I can't comment on that business, but I converted my M20 to a M22Z last spring and it was one of the best upgrades I ever made. 67 Firebird, 400 with 3.23 gears. I understand a modern tremec is better, but there's way more cost and effort involved than just the bare transmission. Have to change the rear gear to take advantage of it, new clutch, new shifter, may or may not fit with your console, etc. I put about $1000 into my existing muncie with the gearset and Jody's matched slider kit and am very pleased.

[gtospieg]

There are additional costs. Shorten drive shaft with new yoke, new clutch, shifter handle. As far as rear gears needing to be changed, that shouldn't be necessary. If you already have a stick car you already have most of what you need.

[Formulajones]

Just a clutch disc is all that needs to be changed, unless you're already running a fine spline then it's not necessary. If considering the M23Z vs a TKX I'm not sure a clutch disc could be considered additional cost anyway with a TKX since the M23Z may also be fine spline. Maybe someone can confirm they can be ordered either way. Regardless a disc is $100 give or take so it's not a deal breaker.

If you are running an aftermarket Hurst shifter already, generally your current stick can be reused as well. All you need is the TKX specific shifter which will accept the aftermarket Hurst handles. They pretty much have any combination of shifter position these days to accommodate any console setup.

It's really a straight forward swap when dealing with a 4 speed car.

[AG]

I just checked the MDL site and a bare trans is $2795 plus shipping and a shifter is $305. Plus you need a C-6 trans input, driveshaft shortening, maybe a clutch disc and some other small stuff. I would go with the TKX and drive anywhere you want.

[lust4speed]

My original Hurst shift handle that came with my 67 GTO bolted up to the Tremec with only drilling a bottom hole in the shifter handle. Shifter exactly centered in the stock location. Same outcome when we did my friend's conversion. We went with Silver Sport and not sure if other companies offer the same shifter pod location.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

My original Hurst shift handle that came with my 67 GTO bolted up to the Tremec with only drilling a bottom hole in the shifter handle. .

Yeah I didn't get into that detail because generally those original push in Hurst sticks used on the assembly line that have specific part numbers stamped on them can get rather pricey for some models when correctly restoring these cars, so I tend to not want to modify them. If that's the case with a particular car I'm doing a 5 speed swap in, I just buy a repop round bar Hurst stick so it looks correct but bolts on instead of pushing in.

But, if the car in question is already running an aftermarket Hurst, it's just as simple as unbolting that stick and bolting it on the 5 speed shifter.

These swaps are really straight forward. Obtaining a C6 yoke and shortening the existing driveshaft is probably the most expensive mod to make it work. The other stuff is cheap. Short speedo cable adapter is cheap, a clutch disc is cheap, and the rest just falls into place. 9 times out of 10 the original cross member can also be used, sometimes with minor mods to save a little more money.

[AG]

Originally Posted by jhein

Does anyone now about this place?

They have this interesting M22Z setup. It's a wide ratio with a lower 1st and 2nd gear. It seems kinda cool. When compared to the standard gears in a M20, for my car with a 3.31 rear it would basically give me the equivalent of a 3.90 rear in 1st and a 3.55 ish in 2nd. Then 3rd and 4th are the same as a standard M20. Seems like the best of both worlds.

https://midwestmuncie.com/product/au...ear-end-gears/

My friend has one of those aftermarket Muncie trans, not the wide ratio and loves everything about. Strong, shifts great, well made, but he is getting a TKX because of the highway driving and revving over 3000 rpm at 65 mph. He does not like the idea of changing the trans he bought 4 years ago (and is expensive) and already changing it but since he wants to drive the car longer distances has accepted the idea.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by AG

My friend has one of those aftermarket Muncie trans, not the wide ratio and loves everything about. Strong, shifts great, well made, but he is getting a TKX because of the highway driving and revving over 3000 rpm at 65 mph. He does not like the idea of changing the trans he bought 4 years ago (and is expensive) and already changing it but since he wants to drive the car longer distances has accepted the idea.

When new, if fitted with 3.55 or steeper gears, ALL of these cars went down the road at 3,000+ rpm all day long. We're just spoiled by driving new cars with overdrives. I run a 3.36 rear in my '65 with the original M-20 and it turns 3,000 rpm at 76 MPH with 29.5" tall rear tires on it (about 3" taller than stock). I swapped a 2.56 rear into my '67 GTO with an automatic and it does really well at speed. 3000 RPM is a tick over 90 mph. Another option for better cruising is to just run a 3.08 or 3.23 rear gear ratio with your stock Muncie, or you can buy a brand new RIchmond ST-10 for just under 2k with a gear ratio of your choice.
I like the 'feel' of an externally shifted vintage style 4 speed much better than the newer 5 and 6 speeds that are internally shifted. For me, it's a big part of the 'old muscle car' experience. I agree 5 speeds are an improvement, but I'm sticking with the old 4 speeds.

[jhein]

I just got a quote from MDI for a TKX. It was $4401.10 for everything except the flywheel, bellhousing and driveshaft. The M22Z would cost much less. Not as good overall, less strength, no OD. But, With my 3.31 I don't really need the OD. I'll see how it runs with the new motor and maybe I'll do something later.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by jhein

I just got a quote from MDI for a TKX. It was $4401.10 for everything except the flywheel, bellhousing and driveshaft. The M22Z would cost much less. Not as good overall, less strength, no OD. But, With my 3.31 I don't really need the OD. I'll see how it runs with the new motor and maybe I'll do something later.

I guarantee that quote is fat and could use a lot of trimming of stuff you just don't need.

Don't need a whole clutch, just a disc

you won't need a poly mount and all that other stuff they tack on. They generally like to add a hydraulic clutch setup too, and that's not necessary either.

Just the trans, a shifter, the short speedo cable, and a C6 yoke will get it done.

Most of the time I'll just get the yokes from our local driveline shop too simply because he's a bit cheaper, and I'm going there for the driveshaft anyway.

[AG]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

When new, if fitted with 3.55 or steeper gears, ALL of these cars went down the road at 3,000+ rpm all day long. We're just spoiled by driving new cars with overdrives. I run a 3.36 rear in my '65 with the original M-20 and it turns 3,000 rpm at 76 MPH with 29.5" tall rear tires on it (about 3" taller than stock). I swapped a 2.56 rear into my '67 GTO with an automatic and it does really well at speed. 3000 RPM is a tick over 90 mph. Another option for better cruising is to just run a 3.08 or 3.23 rear gear ratio with your stock Muncie, or you can buy a brand new RIchmond ST-10 for just under 2k with a gear ratio of your choice.
I like the 'feel' of an externally shifted vintage style 4 speed much better than the newer 5 and 6 speeds that are internally shifted. For me, it's a big part of the 'old muscle car' experience. I agree 5 speeds are an improvement, but I'm sticking with the old 4 speeds.

Yes, way back when no one had options. I have a 3.55 gear in my '72 Convertible which I will change out for a 2.56 posi 1971 Olds 8.5" rear since I don't race the car. When I want to go fast I hop in the racecar. I also have a 1968 Firebird that I'm building an IAII A motor for and I have a TKX going in there.

[Formulajones]

One of our daily drivers has 3.55's and drove it for 3-4 years and close to 40,000 miles with the M-20 Muncie in it and a 27" tire.

It wasn't horrible. Did a lot of long distance trips in it cruising at 65 mph which was right at 28-2900 rpm. But after spending a small fortune building the engine, and seeing the miles we were putting on it every year, I knew I wanted to cut down on the wear and tear so it was destined for a 5 speed.

I left the rear gears in the car, and after the TKO swap it went from 17 mpg on the highway to 21 mpg, and doing that now cruising at 75-80 mph, instead of 65 mph. But I think the noise factor is another big bonus. Cruising at 2200 rpm is noticeably quieter. It's simply just a completely different car, and the 2.87 first gear made it snappier around town which was a nice bonus, so you get your cake and eat it too.

Best money ever spent on any classic car.

[i82much]

I drove my 65 GTO daily with 3.90's in the back, a muncie, and 28" inch tires in my late teens and early 20's. But I also ran around missing a few lug nuts, usually with a taillight out, a bottle of cheap vodka in the trunk, and a half a pack of smokes in the console. So not sure you wanna go that route.

[gtospieg]

67 GTO with 3.55s and 26.1 tire was 2800 at 60, now with a Legend 5speed and .69 OD 2400 @75mph...15 more MPH and 400 fewer RPM, quieter and cooler too.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by i82much

I drove my 65 GTO daily with 3.90's in the back, a muncie, and 28" inch tires in my late teens and early 20's. But I also ran around missing a few lug nuts, usually with a taillight out, a bottle of cheap vodka in the trunk, and a half a pack of smokes in the console. So not sure you wanna go that route.

I seem to remember something like that...