[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by tom s

Jack started with a MT Pontiac Hemi head.Can’t go many places to even get one to scan and make a billet version.LSM also makes billet blocks.Tom

Obviously KRE has one set of billet hemi heads out there……and a little birdie said there might be another KRE billet hemi head/engine with a screw blower and 650 ci out there soon!



GTO George

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

2 things... Chief was a front runner but you see where he is now...or rather not..
Also, I'm not sure his combo had a lot more to give. If it did, it was on borrowed time in my opinion. The guy did an amazing job with what he had no doubt.

Actually, since we are talking about Pontiacs, Chiefs car is still pretty much at the top.

My point is, he is still one of the fastest pontiacs, even though he doesn’t have the super exotic parts.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

Actually, since we are talking about Pontiacs, Chiefs car is still pretty much at the top.

My point is, he is still one of the fastest pontiacs, even though he doesn’t have the super exotic parts.

Agreed..he's a big fish in a little pond.. he can't swim in the ocean anymore though.
Again, not knocking the guy... he's done amazing things with the little poncho..

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

Actually, since we are talking about Pontiacs, Chiefs car is still pretty much at the top.

My point is, he is still one of the fastest pontiacs, even though he doesn’t have the super exotic parts.

Let me ask you this.. I know you're building a nasty car and going after it all..good on you! You seem to keep pressing the point that chief did it with pretty basic parts.. that is a fact. My question is this.. do you keep harping on that point because you're trying to justify going down that same road with your car? That's not a loaded question.. just curious if that's your path?
If so, I don't know that's gonna get it with the current "big dogs" in the Pontiac world and abroad... there are some heavy hitters in the Pontiac pond now... they don't have basic parts..

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Let me ask you this.. I know you're building a nasty car and going after it all..good on you! You seem to keep pressing the point that chief did it with pretty basic parts.. that is a fact. My question is this.. do you keep harping on that point because you're trying to justify going down that same road with your car? That's not a loaded question.. just curious if that's your path?
If so, I don't know that's gonna get it with the current "big dogs" in the Pontiac world and abroad... there are some heavy hitters in the Pontiac pond now... they don't have basic parts..

I am building a drag week car, and I AM NOT building it with any wild fantasies at this point. My initial engine combo will be pretty close to Chiefs. Mine will have a cast IA2 block, where he runs a solid aluminum block. I chose this engine combo because it is already proven, and can be built fairly cheap. I will be looking towards the next step once this is running at its potential.

My engine will have to survive, so I won’t push it as hard as Chief has pushed his.

As far as my car goes. It will be on par with most others. 25.2, strut front, fabricated floater rear. It won’t be the lightest, due to certain creature features and steel body parts. But I’m shooting for 2900 with me in it. So it won’t be a tank.

To sum all of this mess up. I am not building a class car, so that lessens my headaches. As far as being the top dog in the Pontiac world, Cooper is not on my radar at all(since I’m not stupid). But, if my car runs anywhere near my expectations, it’ll be just fine.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

I am building a drag week car, and I AM NOT building it with any wild fantasies at this point. My initial engine combo will be pretty close to Chiefs. Mine will have a cast IA2 block, where he runs a solid aluminum block. I chose this engine combo because it is already proven, and can be built fairly cheap. I will be looking towards the next step once this is running at its potential.

My engine will have to survive, so I won’t push it as hard as Chief has pushed his.

As far as my car goes. It will be on par with most others. 25.2, strut front, fabricated floater rear. It won’t be the lightest, due to certain creature features and steel body parts. But I’m shooting for 2900 with me in it. So it won’t be a tank.

To sum all of this mess up. I am not building a class car, so that lessens my headaches. As far as being the top dog in the Pontiac world, Cooper is not on my radar at all(since I’m not stupid). But, if my car runs anywhere near my expectations, it’ll be just fine.

Good on you man! Sounds like a well thought out deal.. drag week is on my bucket list too..just wo t be in a Pontiac.. what kinda of times and average are you looking for.. sounds like it will be pretty stout numbers based on your plan..

[mgarblik]

If your really going to go way outside the box and design a SOHC or DOHC V-8 "Pontiac" engine for a class, aside from all the technical challenges and the huge investment, there could be another big issue. If your running a particular organization or sanctioning body, one stroke of a pen by a rules committee or tech department could make your entire engine package illegal for competition. Then you are left with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of pretty shiny engine parts and no legal competitive place to race them. Generally, the organization will let you spend your fortune in development because it stirs interest in the class and brings in some additional fans to watch you struggle. If by some miracle you begin to get into the qualifying ladder and God forbid win the class, then you go under the microscope. One sentence could end all your efforts. "New rule effective immediately", "American V-8 engines of cam in block design only". Now what do you do?

Has anything like that happened? You better believe it. NHRA simply eliminated the Pro Stock Truck class out of thin air. Dozens of teams who had invested millions of dollars in engine development and hardware were just left out in the cold. Most sold out for pennies on the dollar. BTW, the teams unsuccessfully sued the NHRA for some financial relief. They were effectively told "You pay your money and you take your chances".

[Jack Gifford]

Mike- you just clarified why I love landspeed racing, especially the "special construction" categories (streamliners & lakesters). Generally the only "new rules" are to enhance safety.

[tininjun68]

Mike, well said about being cautious due to sudden rules/edicts and well documented in Milt Schornack’s bio book about his trips to Daytona for speed week and to SoCal for NHRA events. P!sses one off just to read about that back in the day. Makes me want to get one of those “Stamp out Druids” stickers that Arnie had on a couple of his early/mid 60’s S/S cars.

[69Goat1]

Scott, where is Chief not now? That little EheadedPontiac did really well in America’s list and is holding its own so far in the regular show that they have just started showing with one loss being attributed to a slight jump by Chief yet the other guy could have jumped and Chief would have driven around him. So on the show he spun his first loss and he jumped his second loss...neither shows a lack of HP to win...

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Jack Gifford

Mike- you just clarified why I love landspeed racing, especially the "special construction" categories (streamliners & lakesters). Generally the only "new rules" are to enhance safety.

Understand completely and one of the reasons I love what you are doing. We left the NMCA for similar reasons decades ago. Chasing the rule book just wasn't for us. I do understand the satisfaction of winning with a Pontiac in a tough class, like SS or NHRA Stock, staying within the rules. Even an index class or bracket class where driver skill and reliability are paramount. But as an engine guy, not a driver, it never did as much for me. There are some incredible drivers out there in their Pontiacs.

[tininjun68]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Understand completely and one of the reasons I love what you are doing. We left the NMCA for similar reasons decades ago. Chasing the rule book just wasn't for us. I do understand the satisfaction of winning with a Pontiac in a tough class, like SS or NHRA Stock, staying within the rules. Even an index class or bracket class where driver skill and reliability are paramount. But as an engine guy, not a driver, it never did as much for me. There are some incredible drivers out there in their Pontiacs.

"bracket class where driver skill and reliability are paramount"

I've never had a 'fast' car and always fun to whoop some high dollar cars with a good light and driving the top end in a bracket race!

[Sirrotica]

Just the last episode on Monday this week, Chief was lamenting about all the competition having a power advantage over him. I believe he has said, he's tipped the can to 25% Nitro also.

I'm not sure how long he's going to be able to remain at the top of their list without at least upgrading some part of the upper end, so that his engine breathes a little deeper. I realize he's one of the top tuners on the street, but when he maxes out his power, there isn't much left when he happens to be on a surface that isn't severely traction compromised.

I'm a big fan of Chief, and his car too, but it looks like he's at least going to have to step up his program somewhat over what he currently has, the competition isn't just sitting still. Dave is currently running a hemi in his nova, Monza has a 481X, as does Ryan Martin. Even Dominator manages to put a quick run together, here and there. I know he had (Dominator) a BBC in his car, but I don't think he still is using one of them for power....

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Just the last episode on Monday this week, Chief was lamenting about all the competition having a power advantage over him. I believe he has said, he's tipped the can to 25% Nitro also.

I'm not sure how long he's going to be able to remain at the top of their list without at least upgrading some part of the upper end, so that his engine breathes a little deeper. I realize he's one of the top tuners on the street, but when he maxes out his power, there isn't much left when he happens to be on a surface that isn't severely traction compromised.

I'm a big fan of Chief, and his car too, but it looks like he's at least going to have to step up his program somewhat over what he currently has, the competition isn't just sitting still. Dave is currently running a hemi in his nova, Monza has a 481X, as does Ryan Martin. Even Dominator manages to put a quick run together, here and there. I know he had (Dominator) a BBC in his car, but I don't think he still is using one of them for power....

I'd be shocked if Chief has ever been able to turn his up to the max on ANY street that they have been on...They've all made some decent looking passes, but NONE of them are running big MPH on those passes...Thats my opinion...

Also, as for the nitro talk...I'm still calling bull**** on that one...Along with the talk about locking up the converter on the streets...

Maybe the Boss Bird guys can share their opinions on adding nitro in a turbo combo...I know in the past, it was talked about being a no no...Maybe something has changed.

[Dragncar]

Myself, I hope that 3fasts efforts work out very well. Billet block,,Hemi/LS/FE mains, non pushrod through port RAV heads.
IMHO that is the destination for big power boosted Pontiacs actually making more power and keeping it a Pontiac.
I have been looking forward to his two builds for awhile now.
Maybe it will inspire Justin.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by opeliac

I'd be shocked if Chief has ever been able to turn his up to the max on ANY street that they have been on...They've all made some decent looking passes, but NONE of them are running big MPH on those passes...Thats my opinion...

Also, as for the nitro talk...I'm still calling bull**** on that one...Along with the talk about locking up the converter on the streets...

Maybe the Boss Bird guys can share their opinions on adding nitro in a turbo combo...I know in the past, it was talked about being a no no...Maybe something has changed.

The nitro talk came from Chief's mouth, I didn't make it up.

What is so different about using a turbo as a compressor, over a blower?

As far as nitro and the Boss Bird. Jerry, the tuner of the Boss Bird, made decisions on how the combo was tuned, and what percentages they ran. Over the years Jerry has proven to be a wealth of information about nitro. I've spent a fair amount of time talking with him over the years about nitro. It's because I really didn't know anything first hand about it, and I was curious about it.

He preached to go in baby steps to keep carnage to a minimum in the engines.

I also happened to be standing next to Barcak's dragster when they failed to get all the fuel out of it before firing it up. The block exploded on #7 cylinder, and sent shrapnel into the trailer. Lots of potential for engine carnage when you don't follow the protocol to the letter.

From what Jerry had told me 25% is just tickling the fuel, as opposed to high percentages such as Eric and Mike were running.

Jerry did tell me that at percentages as low as 25% the fuel is still pretty tame, not anything near what 90% can do as far as destruction.

Not my opinion, just a fact:

Why are turbos banned in Top Fuel?

The only reason they are not running turbos is the rule restriction. The rules keep trying to limit top speed. A turbo nitro engine would definitely make more power available. The exhaust gases from nitro carry much more energy than other fuels which is a giant advantage.

[Mr Anonymous]

Justin has been to or at 40%.

90% and 58 degrees of timing, now there's a sound like no other....

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Mr Anonymous

Justin has been to or at 40%.

90% and 58 degrees of timing, now there's a sound like no other....

There ya go, Dave spoke up, and he's the clutch setup man for the former Boss Bird team.

[PAUL K]

BossBirdTTFMF's!!!

[misterp266]

DOHC T/F. Late 80’s early 90’s.
Very successful effort from the McGee brothers. A young Gary Beck & Dale Armstrong with their dragster. I don’t remember if they just stopped using it or NHRA banned it.