[big matt]

Hey guys. I know there are plenty of online transactions going on in the world today. I am just filling you in on what i learned by unfortunate circumstance.
While on another website, i posted some parts that i was seeking. I got a pm stating this certain guy had some of what i needed. So after some back forth talk, we came to a price agreement, and i sent him money via paypal, friends and family. Never heard from this particular member or saw any parts. I got ripped off. Lately i have seen some for sale ads on py stating, paypal payment through friends and family accepted, or zelle, ect.
So where i am going with this? I learned you have zero buying protection by sending money, friends and family. Had i opted for merchandise and paid the 3% fee, i would have had buyer protection, would have got a full refund. The $900 i lost, went to some woman in africa. I even tried locking my card. But because i sent it that way, i lost all control of funds.
Also i see the bank app zelle, is a wire transfer service from bank to bank. My bank told me, once that money is gone, its gone. Know who you are dealing with. If you dont know the person, find out what buyer protection you have before you send off your hard earned money. There are so many scam pros out there. Be careful my dudes.

[ErikW]

Good point

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by big matt

I got a pm stating this certain guy had some of what i needed.

It's becoming a big problem - if you get a PM from someone who wants you to contact their friend off line, it's almost always a scam. We get it here on this site regularly, too.

And, as you found out the friends and family payment isn't worth the risk.

[PAUL K]

Good info

[GTOLou]

Tough lesson. Never understood why the seller has to pay the fee's - heck the buyer is the one who sends money and has no product until it is sent. They need paypal to protect their money. They should pay the fee for protection.

Good news is that I've never been ripped on this forum. Just make sure it is a real member here (still be careful).

[big matt]

Yep. I am not sure why its that way. But in doing an extra step can cover you. Know the fee amount, and add that amount to your dollar amount sent, it will work out. I have done it this way. I have used paypal for 15+ years. Its just at this one moment, i felt i was on clear ground, and figured why spend an extra 30$?? Dummy.
I guess i felt, as being a paypal member, i was covered somehow. By walking the path i did, i lost all coverage.

[big matt]

Originally Posted by GTOLou

Tough lesson. Never understood why the seller has to pay the fee's - heck the buyer is the one who sends money and has no product until it is sent. They need paypal to protect their money. They should pay the fee for protection.

Good news is that I've never been ripped on this forum. Just make sure it is a real member here (still be careful).

Originally Posted by Stuart

It's becoming a big problem - if you get a PM from someone who wants you to contact their friend off line, it's almost always a scam. We get it here on this site regularly, too.

And, as you found out the friends and family payment isn't worth the risk.

As a matter of fact i have a wtb ho cam ad active here, posted a bit back. I got an email from a member with a zero post count, and just joined stating another member had a cam and to email him at some random email address. Ha! Not again you mf's! Moderators suspended him. Great job there.
There is also an active post right now a few down under this post stating friends and family only and zelle, ect. mostly high dollar items. No judgement here. Just cya.

[dataway]

I can understand some sellers wanting to use "friends and family" these days, paypal now sends so much information on "sales" to the government that people just sell something now an then want to limit that exposure. If you are seller in that position, be upfront with comms, your identity and address etc. If you are seller in "business" then accept the fact that you are not going to be able to use "friends and family" and offer your customers some protection.

Just had a wonderful experience on ebay buying a 68 clock. Offered $80 on a $100 item, touched base with the seller ... he said to ignore the "no return" policy, if I didn't like it he would take it back (he is a Pontiac guy). Got the clock, it was perfect. Always helps to put a little time in communicating ... easy to get a feel for what kind of person you are dealing with.

[jamaca85]

i always go with sellers that have been on the site for some time..at least a couple hundred posts. Sometimes its best to buy person to person or spend the extra an use Ebay or buy them new

[Mook]

Originally Posted by GTOLou

Tough lesson. Never understood why the seller has to pay the fee's - heck the buyer is the one who sends money and has no product until it is sent. They need paypal to protect their money. They should pay the fee for protection.

Good news is that I've never been ripped on this forum. Just make sure it is a real member here (still be careful).

Yes...... a seller with 1 post......or a price that is truly to good to be true are red flags for me

[PAUL K]

Is the "buyer protection" only offered on Friends and Family purchases?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by big matt

.
There is also an active post right now a few down under this post stating friends and family only and zelle, ect. mostly high dollar items. No judgement here. Just cya.

From a sellers point of view, if I'm selling a $5,000 item I have zero interest in PayPal getting a cut. Every time I have offered to take PayPal with "fees prepaid" no one has offered to pay the fees on their end so I feel most buyers don't want to pay the fees either.

Being an honest person, one assumes the person your dealing with is going to be honest also. It's a sad deal when you hear a story like the OP's.

[vertigto]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Is the "buyer protection" only offered on Friends and Family purchases?

Just the opposite. If you use 'Friends & Family', you relinquish any purchase protection and forego the 3% fee.

Friends & Family assumes there would be no need for recourse, since the transaction is between individuals with a known relationship that wouldn't dupe the buyer.

It should always be 'buyer beware' these days. I have some family members that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them.

[big matt]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Is the "buyer protection" only offered on Friends and Family purchases?

No Paul. Friends and fam, have zero protection. Meant by the title. I guess you should be able to trust friends and family, that they wont rip you off. Buying as merchandise, gives you coverage

[big matt]

Originally Posted by vertigto

Just the opposite. If you use 'Friends & Family', you relinquish any purchase protection and forego the 3% fee.

It should always be 'buyer beware' these days. I have some family members that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them.

True statements there.

[78w72]

the scamming can go both ways, ive been selling parts online for over 20 years, ebay, forums, & some FB etc. luckily i have never been scammed when buying from strangers, i always talk with them via messages or phone & get their full name & address, you can usually tell whos a scammer & whos legit, especially if you talk on the phone... yes it can still happen but at least you can use your gut instincts a little to decide if the person sounds honest, that plus seeing if they are a long time member of the forum or a newbie with zero posts.

however, i have had dishonest buyers too that use the paypal merchandise payment, you ship them the item & they turn around & claim they never got it or its not as described (when you sent numerous pics & over described the condition) & file a dispute which paypal or ebay will usually rule in the buyers favor & you are out your money & the part. so i am one that tries to use friends & family for my sales off ebay or postal M/O or personal check, but i speak to them & provide all my personal info & show them my 100% positive ebay feedback, have sold a lot of stuff on here to other members also using friend/gift paypal with zero issues.

i even had one guy buy a mint condition cruise control transducer on ebay, a week later he files a dispute claiming it wasnt as described & didnt even contact me to resolve the issue, so ebay had him send it back to me on my dime for a refund.... well low & behold when i got it back it was a dirty, corroded POS that was not the part i sent him! i had no way to prove it & would have likely been out my money & the part but luckily i was able to escalate it beyond a "supervisor" & spoke to a manager of the dispute dept after a couple hours dealing with the foreigners on the front line that denied my fraud claim, the manager refunded me the purchase price & full shipping so i wasnt out anything. there are scammers on both ends.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by vertigto

Just the opposite. If you use 'Friends & Family', you relinquish any purchase protection and forego the 3% fee.

Friends & Family assumes there would be no need for recourse, since the transaction is between individuals with a known relationship that wouldn't dupe the buyer.

It should always be 'buyer beware' these days. I have some family members that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them.

Originally Posted by big matt

No Paul. Friends and fam, have zero protection. Meant by the title. I guess you should be able to trust friends and family, that they wont rip you off. Buying as merchandise, gives you coverage

Thanks for the answer. The reason I ask is it sounds like they offer "protection" for an additional charge to the person sending the money but also charge the guy receiving the money. Am I understanding this correct?

[78w72]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Thanks for the answer. The reason I ask is it sounds like they offer "protection" for an additional charge to the person sending the money but also charge the guy receiving the money. Am I understanding this correct?

no extra charge, the protection is only for sending payment for merchandise & the recipient gets the charge. just like any credit card fee, the seller takes the hit.

easy way around the fees is to just work it into your sale price like most retailers do to cover the fees. & if you are a business filing taxes, the payment fees are deductable.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by big matt

As a matter of fact i have a wtb ho cam ad active here, posted a bit back. I got an email from a member with a zero post count, and just joined stating another member had a cam and to email him at some random email address. Ha! Not again you mf's! Moderators suspended him. Great job there.
There is also an active post right now a few down under this post stating friends and family only and zelle, ect. mostly high dollar items. No judgement here. Just cya.

I received a similar message

[ZeGermanHam]

It's such a mixed bag, but yeah, always do things to cover yourself.

I recently purchased a pulley from someone on Facebook. His profile was the name of a place, not a person, it had no photo, and limited post history visible to me. He said he had the part. When I asked for a photo, he said "believe in trust - no photos". Yeah, lots of red flags there... However, he also said he would mail me the part, and if I wanted to keep it I can pay him via PayPal upon receiving it. If I don't want it, send it back. Low and behold, it arrived this morning and it's exactly what I needed. Turns out he was an honest guy who found the part I had spent months searching for, and there was no funny business. Some people just do business differently, I guess. I can't imagine being a seller who mails out parts without getting paid first, but that's not even the first time I've encountered that practice. I also bought a steering wheel horn cap from someone here who had a very low post count. He also sent the part to me and said "pay me if you decide to keep it, or mail it back". It's the most beautiful original horn cap I've ever seen.

So yeah, it can backfire if you're not careful, but it's all about calculated risk. My examples above were scenarios that I thought had a decent possibility of being scams, but they proved to be fully legitimate. For a $900 purchase, there's no way I'd do that deal without some sort of purchase protection, though.