[jimib]

Hello All,
I need advice to buy and install an EFI setup on my 67 GTO. My mechanic said I should go with the Holley Sniper. I visited their web site; didn’t realize there were so many models to choose from. The 400 block engine is a Butler Performance build with an Edelbrock intake.

Will I need an electric fuel pump in the tank? What’s the complexity of installing an EFI? Is it similar to swapping carburetors? I'm assuming I'll need an available ignition-on 12 volt source?

Thank you

[Tom Vaught]

Electric Fuel Pump in the tank is a good idea for a street car.
There are 255 liter per hour fuel pumps made by OEM suppliers that work well.
Same deal for the Tanks, Inc fuel tanks designed for a Pontiac vehicle (GTO).
Their tank is slightly bigger vs the factory gas tank. I have one in my 64 GTO.
64 tank is not the same as 67 tank. Different fuel gas gage sender (calibration).

You will need a proper Fuel Pump Relay and wiring to drive the fuel pump. 30 amp wire.
Don't assume that you can use the Trunk Light wire to power the fuel pump.
You will also need a in-line fuel filter close to the tank. 64speed posted some pics recently on his fuel tank installation.

Some Pontiac Guys, if the car is not perfect, install a Tanks,inc "Trap Door" in the trunk flow to allow swapping out the fuel pump quickly if it should ever need replacing.

You can wire the system so that the battery wire feeds the relay near the tank and then you can install a manual switch to activate the relay and power the fuel pump.
That manual switch can be used as a anti-theft deterent too.

3/8" fuel lines are a good ideal. One to the sniper and one back to the tank.
Sniper has a built-in fuel pressure regulator, I believe.

Tom V.

[jimib]

I spoke with Holley Tech support. I didn't know the right questions to ask. I told him how my engine is set up now and that I don't do track or racing, just street driving. He suggested kit model 550-510K. It's my understanding this kit has everything I need to set up an EFI.

[jimib]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Electric Fuel Pump in the tank is a good idea for a street car.
There are 255 liter per hour fuel pumps made by OEM suppliers that work well.
Same deal for the Tanks, Inc fuel tanks designed for a Pontiac vehicle (GTO).
Their tank is slightly bigger vs the factory gas tank. I have one in my 64 GTO.
64 tank is not the same as 67 tank. Different fuel gas gage sender (calibration).

You will need a proper Fuel Pump Relay and wiring to drive the fuel pump. 30 amp wire.
Don't assume that you can use the Trunk Light wire to power the fuel pump.
You will also need a in-line fuel filter close to the tank. 64speed posted some pics recently on his fuel tank installation.

Some Pontiac Guys, if the car is not perfect, install a Tanks,inc "Trap Door" in the trunk flow to allow swapping out the fuel pump quickly if it should ever need replacing.

You can wire the system so that the battery wire feeds the relay near the tank and then you can install a manual switch to activate the relay and power the fuel pump.
That manual switch can be used as a anti-theft deterent too.

3/8" fuel lines are a good ideal. One to the sniper and one back to the tank.
Sniper has a built-in fuel pressure regulator, I believe.

Tom V.

Hi Tom,
I was adding to my post at the same time you were responding.
Thanks for your info. I'll take your advice and look over 64Speed's write up.
This project may be a little more involved than I thought. Currently I have 5/16" lines and I believe you are suggesting 3/8's. I looked at Tanks Inc. I guess my replacement tank from Ames Performance is not the best choice. The tank I found is this link.
https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...rod/prd419.htm
Trying to complete this project with my regular job may be too much to take on depending on what my mechanic will charge me.

[Scarebird]

If cost and labor are an issue, the pony tank fuel center may work better here - no need to mess with frame fuel lines or EFI tanks.

an example: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpf-40004

[Chris-Austria]

You can also use the RobbMC Power Surge: https://www.robbmcperformance.com/pr...owersurge.html

I installed it in the left corner of the engine bay. The stock fuel pump will provide the power surge with fuel and inside is a electric fuel pump that you can connect to the Sniper (+ the return). I use 6AN hoses.

This pump is pretty quiet. When the engine is running you cannot hear it. Works very well in my 66 GTO with a 462cui engine.

While I was writing this Scarebird posted the fuel tank center... thats about the same but I prefer the RobbMC version because it is smaller and easy to hide.

[Tom Vaught]

In 1996, Marty P and I made a very simple "Surge Tank" with a EFI (higher pressure)
Fuel pump inside the surge tank. His mechanical fuel pump supplied fuel to the surge tank and a separate line returned the excess fuel back to the vehicle fuel tank.

He installed this on his 1969 Grand Prix with a 428 engine and the car was very smooth and happy with the conversion.

(The Surge Tank covers up any chance of the fuel running away from the stock tank and starving the EFI System.)

Tom Vaught

[jimib]

Thankyou Scarebird and Chris-Austria.
Cost is not really an issue, I just want to make the right choices in this regard. The pony tank fuel center (Scarebird) and the and RobbMC Power Surge (Chris-Austria) look like an interesting and perhaps great options and I'll look over it. My main concern is that my 55 year old ride is dependable. My Butler Performance rebuild runs great; however, I didn't understand why this engine was intermittently sputtering during hard acceleration until my mechanic explained it to me. So, for one, I live in Florida, which means hot most of the year. Our current gasoline is mixed with alcohol which boils at a lower temp than gas refined back in the 1960's.

[Lee]

I just installed a FAST EZ 2.0 in a friend's '67 GTO clone.

I used a Tanks Inc tank, along with their tubular fuel-level sending unit (MUCH better than the old swing-arm sending units). I used the fuel pump that was included with the FAST system. That kit comes with a nice amount of of quality 3/8 (aka -6) push-lock fuel hose, but I still needed about 6' more to make the hose route like I wanted.

I also used the FAST Dual Sync distributor & E92 coil, along with an old analog MSD-6 box.

ANY of these system will work more smoothly and effectively with a matched distributor, and allowing the ECU to control timing as well as fuel. The computer's timing adjustments take effect nearly immediately, while fuel changes take a moment longer - so controlling both makes for a smoother overall experience.

I installed a nearly identical system in a friends car several years ago. He has put over 30,000 trouble-free miles on it, with several long trips. He has a 200-4R tranny, and has reported 17+mpg on highway drives.

Butler Performance also seems fond of the FAST efi systems. They are also the only efi system with a lifetime warranty, and they are owned by CompCams.

[promptcritical]

You don't like the carburetor?

[Tom Vaught]

Here is what a simple Surge Tank type system is plumbed like, if you did not want to get into a fuel tank purchase.

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

here it is

[jimib]

Originally Posted by promptcritical

You don't like the carburetor?

No, I don't like breaking down either. I explained this in post #8.

[promptcritical]

I missed the breaking down part in post 8. I’m just always curious about people’s reasoning for going to EFI on these old cars. I’ve been thinking about moving to EFI myself, but not for reliability. Thanks for responding.

[jimib]

Originally Posted by Lee

I just installed a FAST EZ 2.0 in a friend's '67 GTO clone.

I used a Tanks Inc tank, along with their tubular fuel-level sending unit (MUCH better than the old swing-arm sending units). I used the fuel pump that was included with the FAST system. That kit comes with a nice amount of of quality 3/8 (aka -6) push-lock fuel hose, but I still needed about 6' more to make the hose route like I wanted.

I also used the FAST Dual Sync distributor & E92 coil, along with an old analog MSD-6 box.

ANY of these system will work more smoothly and effectively with a matched distributor, and allowing the ECU to control timing as well as fuel. The computer's timing adjustments take effect nearly immediately, while fuel changes take a moment longer - so controlling both makes for a smoother overall experience.

I installed a nearly identical system in a friends car several years ago. He has put over 30,000 trouble-free miles on it, with several long trips. He has a 200-4R tranny, and has reported 17+mpg on highway drives.

Butler Performance also seems fond of the FAST efi systems. They are also the only efi system with a lifetime warranty, and they are owned by CompCams.

Looks impressive Lee. I found a pretty good video on Fast EZ 2.0.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3maui5mMss

[Chris-Austria]

I also got the Sniper 550-510K and the Hyperspark distributor, which is a must have for me, if you go EFI. You can build a nice fuel and ignition table pretty easily. A carb and a mechanical dist. can do this as well, but with the EFI it is just that much easier. My engine now runs perfect in every condition (ice cold, hot, cruise, WOT and everything in between).

With the surge tank system from RobbMC I did:

- connect the stock fuel pump to the surge tank (with a filter between)
- connect the high pressure outlet from the surge tank to the Sniper (with filter between)
- connect the return line from the Sniper to the surge tank
- connect the return line from the surge tank to the fuel tank (stock size is fine)

The advantage is that you don't have to switch the fuel tank, deal with the fuel lines all the way and you will always have 1 or 2 liters in the surge tank, so it will never starve for fuel, no matter how hard you accelerate or go around corners and if the fuel tank is almost empty... simply doesn't matter

[Formulajones]

I prefer to set them up just as Lee has stated.

A good EFI fuel tank, a good walbro pump in the tank, and you have OEM type reliability, quiet operation. No fuel tanks mounted up in front of the car (never liked that idea for many reasons)

Yes the cost for the fuel system is more initially but I've found everyone is much happier in the long run. I even run these types of fuel systems on carburated applications. I've found anything that makes over 450hp or more it just makes more sense to upgrade to a solid fuel system like this as it starts to become difficult to feed the engine properly with mechanical pumps. Nice thing about that is when the owner decides to go EFI at a later date, the fuel system is already in place.
That was the case with both of our street cars, making the EFI swap a breeze that was done in an afternoon.

As far as EFI swaps, fuel systems aside, there are many on the market and they all seem to work well. Fi Tech is popular, in fact I see more of those than anything else. I've done FAST that Lee mentioned and they are nice systems. We run a pair of Holley Sniper Stealths on our cars and they have been flawless too. Pick your price point is what it comes down to.
Getting away from the throttle body swaps starts to get more involved, but there is some really nice port injected stuff out there too if you don't mind the extra coin and a little more work. They have more tuning advantages.

[RocktimusPryme]

I just installed a Terminator X. It was a generally positive experience. The wiring is more extensive on the Terminator than the Sniper because it has a divorced ECU. That said, the divorced ECU nets you a lesser chance of dealing with the invisible RFI issues that plague some users. So you kinda pick your poison there. The Sniper would for sure be an easier install, although the Terminator wasnt bad. The Terminator is easy to get in and running, its a little harder to make look pretty with its more numerous cable bundling.

Fired right up. My only issue now is getting the car warm enough for it to learn. Coolant has to be at least 160*. It got chilly on us here recently and i think my thermostat is opening early.

On the fuel system, I would definitely go with an EFI tank and sunk pump. The tank just by itself is an upgrade over stock. I actually used an EFI tank when I was still carbed. Its just flat out better than the OEM tank. Recomend making yourself a trap door, and then even if the worse happens and your pump dies, its just a cheap OEM style walbro pump that you can swap out in half an hour. I had to drop my tank to install new lines on mine because I dont have the trap door. Need to do that in the future.

[Formulajones]

You can change the learn parameters to start at any point you wish.

I had to change mine on both cars because there are occasions on cooler days where the car won't hit 160, even while driving it.

So I have my learn on both cars starting at 140 degrees.

[RocktimusPryme]

Interesting. Ill try that.

I had a 160 EMP style thermostat in it, which is dead nuts on 160. Didnt matter the weather, it would get to 159/160 and sit right there. I bought a Mezeire (sp?) 170* unit. I couldnt find one of the other styles in a 170 degree unit. New one seems like it opens at more like 150. So thats obnoxious. I know I have one of those EMP dudes around that is a 180 but of course I cant find it.