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#1
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Should I fix it if it's not broken?
The engine in my car is a WS code block, not numbers matching. #12 heads. The crank, rods and valves, springs are all factory original parts. The block is 60 over. It was rebuilt just before I got it. They used all Melling parts. Runs good.
Here's the question. With all those 50 year old parts in there it makes me a little nervous. Would it be wise to redo the motor with a new rotating assembly and valvetrain, or is it fine as is? My driving habits with it are cruising with some < 5000 RPM (4500 is what I shoot for) shifts thrown in there from time to time, but no real thrashing it. If I have to rebuild the motor at some point that wouldn't bother me too much, but, what I don't want to do is break something irreplaceable like the block or heads. The idea of a stroker kit, roller cam, all new valvetrain is kind of tempting.
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share |
#2
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heads are avail,blocks not so much.Tom
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The Following User Says Thank You to tom s For This Useful Post: | ||
#3
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To me, it's part of the fun of the hobby. If you have the $, want to do it, go for it.
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1965 Pontiac GTO 455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power 9.25:1 CR Stump Puller Cam Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00 3.55 Rear Differential Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6" Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28" |
The Following User Says Thank You to wbnapier For This Useful Post: | ||
#4
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Hard to say, I race my stuff pretty frequently with correct "numbers" parts in the cars. My bird with it's YZ block and 12 heads is one of them, the 69Z with it's DZ block and all the parts is another. But they don't have 50 year old parts inside any of them either (other than crankshafts), and I'm pretty comfortable with the builds that I won't (and never have had) any problems.
But, if it's really a concern for you, it's not that big of a deal to build something specific with all the aftermarket support out there for Pontiacs, including blocks. All it takes in money. I will say though, the Z does make me a little uncomfortable, with those blocks fetching upwards of $4000 or more, the correct 1178 cranks aren't falling off trees anymore and grab $1500 for a good one that hasn't been turned. To top it off it's my wife's daily. I've seriously been thinking about bagging that engine for a later restoration to keep the miles and abuse off of it, and running something else in it as long as we're using it like we do. Been 5 years and haven't done it yet though, lol. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post: | ||
#5
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For your intended use I'd leave it alone. The chances of a catastrophic failure are pretty minimal.
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#6
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I agree with Stuart, doesn't really sound like you're running it that hard.
I tend to abuse mine like this as frequently as I can https://youtu.be/er1z7PpqsnY |
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post: | ||
#7
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Leave it alone...
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles |
The Following User Says Thank You to 71GP76TA For This Useful Post: | ||
#8
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Yup I’d leave it alone.
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The Following User Says Thank You to weranc55 For This Useful Post: | ||
#9
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At 60 over, it's not original inside at least once maybe twice to be that far over. I'd leave it be.
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The Following User Says Thank You to necdb3 For This Useful Post: | ||
#10
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If you blow it up, use that opportunity to rebuild it.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Aus78Formula For This Useful Post: | ||
#11
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Your 50 year old parts are better than the brand new Chinese parts. Leave it be and address as needed.
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1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey 1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles 2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4 2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4 |
The Following User Says Thank You to 77 Canamman For This Useful Post: | ||
#12
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I agree. I know plenty of people who’ve had motors done in the last few years and have either cam, lifter or other problems because of cheap parts.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to weranc55 For This Useful Post: | ||
#13
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Well, that seems to be a very strong consensus to leave it alone. Yeah, I know that at 60 over that's probably the end of the line for the block anyway. So I'll just run it and be happy.
Thanks folks!
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share |
The Following User Says Thank You to jhein For This Useful Post: | ||
#14
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When and if the time comes, you can always sleeve it if you want it to continue its life beyond being a good quality boat anchor
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1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey 1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles 2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4 2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4 |
The Following User Says Thank You to 77 Canamman For This Useful Post: | ||
#15
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Another leave it alone here. But last two builds I went forged rods and pistons, so I would go that route again on a build.
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72 Bird |
The Following User Says Thank You to bird72 For This Useful Post: | ||
#16
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Quote:
In your situtation ,if it needed it, I wouldn't hesitate to forego the cost of sleeving it to keep a correct block there..
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
The Following User Says Thank You to unruhjonny For This Useful Post: | ||
#17
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i went the other way...mine is the original numbers matching engine that had 130k miles on it, nothing ever done to it other the routine maint stuff as far as i know...like you, the more miles i added the more i worried that the one day i'd punch it hard and something internal would break lose & smoke the entire engine...so i had it rebuilt by a well known pontiac rebuilder and racer...i suppose it made me feel better about punching it now with a "new" engine and ease my worries about something internal breaking loose...a side benefit was it was rebuilt to RAIII specs :-)
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The Following User Says Thank You to tdavidl For This Useful Post: | ||
#18
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Yeah, sleeving would be the way to go. Less expensive than a correct block, which I probably couldn't find anyway. I don't know what the limitations of sleeving are for any given block, especially if you had to do all 8 cylinders.
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share |
#19
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Quote:
Have you watched any of the Haggerty engine rebuild videos? Some of the more unusual builds that I have seen were the most fascinating ones.
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
The Following User Says Thank You to unruhjonny For This Useful Post: | ||
#20
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Quote:
Nice looking Formula, BTW. Love that color.
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share Last edited by jhein; 09-10-2021 at 11:57 AM. |
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