[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by John Milner

There are some pictures of some of the lifters. Some look a little different than others. Some have the oil band and two small machined grooves below the oil band. The other appears smooth. The oil bands are in the same location but the one with the dual machined bands has an oil hole slightly higher than the smooth lifters. I think they should work and will hopefully be a better option than some of the stuff on the market today.

Mine look like the picture on the left. Paul K. told me they were good. Just wondering. The set came in a box, same shape as Crane Lifters, used to, 2X8 pattern in box.

[67Fbird]

well I can verify that 1991 CRANE lifters had the 2 groves...as I just threw mine away After my 400 death and all the "stuff" that I found in the pan I really did not want to go thru cleaning each of them. Figured I would just buy a new set...add another $150 to the already over budget ...budget build

[Tom Vaught]

Thank you for verifying what I posted.
67Fbird, Send me a PM and we can work out a deal on another set of the good 1991 lifters.

Tom V.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

TRW Wolverine HL-1951 Hydraulic Valve Lifter HL25 HL35 H951 JB-951 HT944 VL49 VL51.

Made by TRW Hy-Lift (hence the part no prefix) to Crane Specs for Wolverine Blue Racer Brand (owned by Crane). TRW Hy-Lift was eventually sold to Johnson Hy-Lift.

Would those lifters be leak down siilar to the Rhoads lifters for Pontiac blocks?

[Tom Vaught]

No, the lifters WOULD NOT LEAK DOWN THE SAME as the Rhoads Lifters WITHOUT the
Rhoads lifter modification of the internal lifter plunger.

Tom V.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Would those lifters be leak down ones similar to the Rhoads Variable lifters for Pontiac blocks?

So that business about the Sealed Power "Lifter Debacle" in the late 1990s while true is several years after the lifters were produced with the dual groove
around the lifters.

Tom V.
Reply from MIke : Is this were the "Lifter Debacle" in the late 1990s came from. By the way years ago I followed your post on Tri-power #'s from the info. you Published on this forum . It help confirm some of my past findings on the Rochester 2GC+V Carbs.

[Tom Vaught]

My post was about this:
Johnson supplies Hydraulic Lifters for Rhoads Lifters MODIFICATION.

Rhodes buys the lifters, takes them apart, removed the Piston in the center of the lifter, machines a very high quality GROOVE
of a precise size for oil flow in a North/South direction on the piston. This causes the lifter to bleed down and the hydraulic piston
to be lowered at idle and low rpm speeds. At higher rpm the piston cannot bleed down fast enough and you get full valve lift.

Tom V.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Would those lifters be leak down ones similar to the Rhoads Variable lifters for Pontiac blocks?

So that business about the Sealed Power "Lifter Debacle" in the late 1990s while true is several years after the lifters were produced with the dual groove
around the lifters.

Tom V.
Reply from MIke : Is this were the "Lifter Debacle" in the late 1990s came from. By the way years ago I followed your post on Tri-power #'s from the info. you Published on this forum . It help confirm some of my past findings on the Rochester 2GC+V Carbs.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

My post was about this:
Johnson supplies Hydraulic Lifters for Rhoads Lifters MODIFICATION.

Rhodes buys the lifters, takes them apart, removed the Piston in the center of the lifter, machines a very high quality GROOVE
of a precise size for oil flow in a North/South direction on the piston. This causes the lifter to bleed down and the hydraulic piston
to be lowered at idle and low rpm speeds. At higher rpm the piston cannot bleed down fast enough and you get full valve lift.

Tom V.

Tom, If I advance my cam "hypothetically" and prier to degreeing the cam. I am checking my math and the procedure, to make sure that I understand this cam business. Note: the LSA is at 113.5 from the factory. I am told to set up the new LSA at 109 degrees, because the "041" cam has been well tested at the track .The ICL = 112 and ECL = 115 thus (115 -112 = 3) (3 divided by 2 = 1.5) So the 1.5 advanced is built into the "041" cam from Melling Factory. The lSA = 113.5 Now I would go to the adjustable timing gear / chain to install them. I install the crank key on # 6 setting which is twice the cam degrees.So half of 6 is 3 . Now I am at ((3 + 1.5 (advance in the cam already) = 4.5)) So (113.5 - 4.5 = 109 new LSA) The second question is this: The "041" cam goes well with the Rhoads lifters according to the forum members on this site. Why in my case being a street car driven mainly ( some times I will go fast to find the limits of my vehicle), should I pull out the Johnson lifters that only have about 7000 miles on them . The difference off the line will be worth the expense? After all I am looking for gains in performance aren't I. What I mean in a nut shell is I better feel the performance like it is night v.s. day if I am going to replace the current lifters to the new ones. Questions #3 , why do the Rhoads lifters bleeding down make the difference anyway? Simple answer is all I need please. MIKE OUT

[67Fbird]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

. Questions #3 , why do the Rhoads lifters bleeding down make the difference anyway? Simple answer is all I need please. MIKE OUT

Because the lifter is acting like a SPONGE at low rpm (low oil flow...low oil pressure) and therefore NOT transmitting the cam lobe movement EXACTLY. The lifter is moving slow enough that instead of transfering the "lift" directly to the pushrod per the cam....the cam pushes UP...the lifter pushes UP but the valve spring force causes the lifter's internal plunger to "BLEED OFF" some of its hydraulic support. Basically making the net valve movement LESS and the duration LESS than what the camshaft is sending. NOW...when rpm (oil flow and pressure, speed) INCREASE.....there is NO "bleed off" and everything is back to "normal"

[PAUL K]

Lift has little effect on driveability. Duration and overlap have much a bigger influence. Rhoades modify their lifters to collapse (bleed down) much faster than a standard lifter. This cause the valves to close faster (sooner) and make the cam act as if it has less duration. When the intake valve closes sooner the engine builds more cylinder pressure. When the exhaust valve closes sooner the overlap is reduced. As engine RPM increases the time for the lifter to bleed down is reduced so the Rhoades lifter starts to act more like a normal lifter... In short.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

the cam pushes UP...the lifter pushes UP but the valve spring force causes the lifter's internal plunger to "BLEED OFF" some of its hydraulic support. Basically making the net valve movement LESS and the duration LESS than what the camshaft is sending. NOW...when rpm (oil flow and pressure, speed) INCREASE.....there is NO "bleed off" and everything is back to "normal" Mikes reply to this : Got "how it works", but now I would like to no "why it works" to gain performance please . Mike out.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Lift has little effect on driveability. Duration and overlap have much a bigger influence. Rhoades modify their lifters to collapse (bleed down) much faster than a standard lifter. This cause the valves to close faster (sooner) and make the cam act as if it has less duration. When the intake valve closes sooner the engine builds more cylinder pressure. When the exhaust valve closes sooner the overlap is reduced. As engine RPM increases the time for the lifter to bleed down is reduced so the Rhoades lifter starts to act more like a normal lifter... In short.

MIKES ANSWER TO THIS : more cylinder pressure, overlap is reduced (LESS LSA , I THINK ) BETTER PERFORMANCE . Great info. and description. Thank you very much , all of you.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

MIKES ANSWER TO THIS : more cylinder pressure, overlap is reduced (LESS LSA , I THINK ) BETTER PERFORMANCE . Great info. and description. Thank you very much , all of you.

Mikes answer to this : When the intake valve closes sooner the engine builds more cylinder pressure. "Is this why one would advance the cam in the first place , in that the result is more cylinder pressure equals a higher performance engine.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

the cam pushes UP...the lifter pushes UP but the valve spring force causes the lifter's internal plunger to "BLEED OFF" some of its hydraulic support. Basically making the net valve movement LESS and the duration LESS than what the camshaft is sending. NOW...when rpm (oil flow and pressure, speed) INCREASE.....there is NO "bleed off" and everything is back to "normal" Mikes reply to this : Got "how it works", but now I would like to no "why it works" to gain performance please . Mike out.

YOU ARE TRICKING THE COMBUSTION PROCESS.
You have one set of timing events that the valves see at low speeds and another set of timing events built into the camshaft design that adds more performance on the top end.

Kind of like a "Lifter Turbocharger" soft on the bottom of the power range but at higher rpm your
valve event "turbocharger" gives you the extra power to be happy at the higher engine speeds.

It softens the low speed rpm camshaft events and makes the camshaft act like a smaller duration camshaft.
Better low speed drive-ability but also a milder sounding engine. No PRO STOCK engine sound.

Tom V.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

I jumped on a Kawasaki 900 in 1975 bored over to 1100 cc kit ,Turbo charged. Hard tail. I weighed 135 lb at the time.When the turbo kicked in( late) I was holding the throttle with one hand and the other grip with the other and almost came off the seat . Then the hard tail started to bonce due to "no" rear shocks. I am hanging on for my life and the rear end was jumping off the ground from side to side and almost threw me like a bucking bull. I let off the throttle and drove home slowly and gave the motorcycle back to the owner. Fastest vehicle I ever rode. The stained seat is a reminder not to get on something like that anymore. When the turbo spooled up and launched was the most thrilling experience I ever had. I won't experience anything like that with these Rhoad lifters, will I ? ps. I think the real question is Will I notice the difference between the Johnson vs Rhoads lifters, along with the cam timing advancement at 109 LSA that I plan to do after degreeing the cam?

[67Fbird]

no.
it's not like you are way overcammed already. Yes there will be a little bottom end torque increase but unless your booty dyno can tell +/- 30 ft/lbs ....nah. The ONLY advantage you MIGHT be able to pinpoint is a little softer idle (increase in vacuum) and the noisy tick tick tick...

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

My booty dyno is calibrated to +/- 50 lbft so your rite. That is what I red , that one can hear the Rhoades lifters ,not into noise and I like the lope I have now . No Rhoades for me . Thank you for the Honest input . Mike