[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Joel Koontz

Tom's comments about the Military Gas Cans got me thinking about my gas storage procedures.

I am sometimes "forced" to buy gas in bulk. Not actually forced, but as frugal as I am, it seems like it. Grocery store near me offers Fuel Perks that can accumulate to the point where I can get 30 gallons of gas for NO, or greatly reduce cost. The perks expire so I cannot always buy it "when I need it". When I can "get it for free/cheap" I always get the full 30 gallons. This means that I will often get 15 gallons of gas in cans to store for some period of time.

I transport in plastic 5 gal cans, but when I get home, I usually put it into a 15 gallon container that is easy to pump out of. The container has good gaskets on the openings and CAN be very well sealed, but because of my concerns about potential ruptures due to expansion/contraction, I do not normally tighten the bungs. A ruptured 15 gallon container of gas is not what I want in my shop(or anywhere)

I think I may have come up a better way to store the fuel.

The storage containers are 15G. I also have some 25-30 gal containers that the tops have been cut out of. The 15G containers are a fairly snug fit inside the 25G containers. I plan to put the 15G containers inside the 25Ga containers then fill with gas and tightly seal the 15G containers. Still a chance of rupture due to expansion/contraction, but if it does happen all of the gas will be contained in the 25G container.

Seems to me that this is fairly safe solution that should help my stored gas stay fresh substantially longer.

I know how to solve your problem....

You just need to buy more cars

[Joel Koontz]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I know how to solve your problem....

You just need to buy more cars

You left one factor out of that solution.

I have enough cars/vehicles, but if they are not driven, it does not help this situation. My Pontiac accumulated a whopping 120 miles between annual inspections the last time around.

[Formulajones]

Simple, you need to drive them more often

[Tom Vaught]

Joel, My military cans do not have a vent. If you try to fill them at a gas station too quickly they will spit back fuel thru the only opening.

I store these cans in a separate lawn tractor building and the cans are in the building during the hot summer and cold michigan winters and I have never had one problem with them. I fill them in the fall and seal them up with little air inside them. In the spring the gas is just like the gas would be from the pump down the street but not winter gas.

As I said earlier I had the true automotive gas cans, both plastic and the pancake metal ones, the gas would go bad with both containers over the winter.

Tom V.

[Joel Koontz]

I hope my tightly sealed plastic container will yield the same results.

[1965gp]

Here are a few updates on the two cars I was having the issue with.

69 Charger- started with starter fluid and got it to idle. After running it for a while the fuel/starting issue seemed to go away. Fired up like normal and idled great in and out of gear.

72 TA clone- had very little fuel in it that may have been suspect. I added 5 gallons of fresh gas. A small shot of starter fluid and it fired right up, idled correct with the choke operating as expected. However, as I drove it down the street the drive quality continued to deteriorate. It died several times but would start right up on the new gas.

Thinking the carb may have been too big I pulled the smaller carb off of my K5 and tried it. Also seemed to run good at first but again the idle quality degraded after running for a bit.

I pulled the bowls off the original carb on the car and they seem to have what looks like sand in the bottom of the bowl where the fuel sits. The gaskets seem to be falling apart for a carb that is only about a year old.

Could this be gasket material? Could the paper fuel filter becoming apart?

Any info appreciated!

[Joel Koontz]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

I pulled the bowls off the original carb on the car and they seem to have what looks like sand in the bottom of the bowl where the fuel sits. The gaskets seem to be falling apart for a carb that is only about a year old.

Could this be gasket material? Could the paper fuel filter becoming apart?

Any info appreciated!

It could be gasket material or paper filter could come apart, but I doubt that is what you are seeing. I think you are seeing what is left, after 99% of what they currently call gas, has evaporated. Same crap is probably blocking/partially blocking, jets/passages.

What did it smell like? "Bad Gas" has a noxious odor, much different than fresh gas.

[Half-Inch Stud]

10% ethanol fuel seems to drop my TOWING MPG from 12 to 10. Otherwise not towing it stays 22-24 mpg highway, 19 mpg residential.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

Here are a few updates on the two cars I was having the issue with.

69 Charger- started with starter fluid and got it to idle. After running it for a while the fuel/starting issue seemed to go away. Fired up like normal and idled great in and out of gear.

72 TA clone- had very little fuel in it that may have been suspect. I added 5 gallons of fresh gas. A small shot of starter fluid and it fired right up, idled correct with the choke operating as expected. However, as I drove it down the street the drive quality continued to deteriorate. It died several times but would start right up on the new gas.

Thinking the carb may have been too big I pulled the smaller carb off of my K5 and tried it. Also seemed to run good at first but again the idle quality degraded after running for a bit.

I pulled the bowls off the original carb on the car and they seem to have what looks like sand in the bottom of the bowl where the fuel sits. The gaskets seem to be falling apart for a carb that is only about a year old.

Could this be gasket material? Could the paper fuel filter becoming apart?

Any info appreciated!

based on what you described & the fact you used 5 gallons of fresh gas, i highly doubt the problems are related to the fuel itself... & seeing that pic, the carb or fuel system or ignition or other issues with the engine are likely whats causing the problems you describe. best of luck figuring it out.

[Cliff R]

The gaskets are going South but most of that crap in the bottom of the fuel bowl is from the gasoline sitting in a vented environment too long.

When left in containers, whether it be a gas can, gas tank or carburetor fuel bowl and vented to the atmosphere, fuel will evaporate, soak up some water, create rust, oxidation, and begin to break down into it's base components.

Combinations of those vents can and will leave enough sticky varnish like residue behind to cause all sorts of running issues. Even worse when it's mixed with rust and corrosion and some "apple jelly" and white powder common from the fuel having ethanol in it. I see this sort of thing ALL the time here, and it keeps me busier than I want to be......FWIW......Cliff

[1965gp]

Thank you Cliff- I was hoping to get your opinion

[i82much]

i stopped having problems when i switched to using sta-bil and non-ethanol fuel in the last tank before storage. gto, k10, riding and push mowers, generators, all get the same thing.

[i82much]

also, keep in mind that your electric choke carbs make their own heat when the key is on, even if engine isn’t running. so an extended cranking session with breaks in the run position can open the electric choke.

[dmac]

Just a suggestion that has worked for me. turn the engine over without any stepping on the gas allowing the carb to fill. Then, before trying to turn over, pump pedal once to the floor, hold open and turn over. If it doesn't fire, remove foot from gas, and turn over a few times. Then trying pumping gas twice- holding it down on second pump, see if it fires. If not, release pedal, turn overa few times again, then try three pumps, holding pedal down on third pump. I never had any car that needed more than three pumps, but you might need 4,5. If your car started after 1 pump, or 2, or 3, or 4, next time you will know how many pumps to give it. And completely cold might need 1 more pump of the pedal than a little warm. Holding the pedal open seems to help control flooding some compared to pumping gas and trying to start with throttle closed. Not saying it will work, but worth a try because it is so simple to try. Usually, if it fires, even if it doesn't run, you can then try with the throttle half open after giving the required pumps of fuel. When you pump the gas,without turning the engine, it acts a little like starter fluid. I always go a little mad when I see movies with people pumping the pedal repeatedly while turning the key at the same time. And when people do that on a newer vehicle with EFI, it irritates me too.