[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Several comments: I am glad you didn't buy this car. You are knowledgeable and knowledge is POWER. You just proved it. When you presented a laundry list of defects and things that didn't add up and many things these idiots didn't even know about, you had a huge advantage. All the dealer can do at that point is be courteous, hope you aren't talking too loud where others can hear and get you out the door before another sale is lost. These dealers of "collector cars" ALWAYS seek to make a killing. They convince the consignee that only "their expert staff of professional salespeople", can extract maximum blood from the buyer. Of course that will come at a considerable price. These dealers are NEVER a good deal financially for the buyer. You have shown on this forum exactly what you want and expect and that car is waiting somewhere out there, hopefully in private hands. Best of luck with your search. Thank you for exposing another one of these dealers for what they are, peddlers of marginal junk at BIG prices.

That place is a nice place to go on a cold fall or winter Saturday it’s huge and you can easily spend 4 hours there they have a huge Wright Brothers airplane on display along with many historical transportation back to the stage coach days. Those are not for sale, but a draw to get people in. It’s free to the public, and the inventory changes often. Like a car show without the cars owners.

I know damn well the owners of these for sale cars gave the Place a number that would be their bottom line but the salesman said when an offer is made he has to call them. Like they’re going to sit around waiting for that call RIGHT! It’s that old salesman needs to leave you sit and go talk with the sales manager BS and the back and forth begins. He did stay professional throughout our conversation and list of concerns in my hand, as well we did no need to be loud and obnoxious and make a scene we don’t roll like that, but did ask him to please pass on our concerns to the owner so he could consider pricing the car accordingly to the issues it in real life has against his current value. Once you give a salesman your number.....he or she knows exactly how much of their cut is getting cut thus his answer to us was.....I won’t even bother the owner with your offer. That car has been there since September and on e bay twice.

[mgarblik]

I am glad you were treated well. These places have their purpose. And they have to sell cars, because they have salespeople to pay, rent or a mortgage to pay and so forth. So people do buy these cars for these inflated prices. They are fun places to go on a cold winter day for sure. I do it to keep my skills sharp picking apart all the "perfect original cars for sale". We have a place similar to this one in Springfield, OH It's called Mershons World of Wheels. They have been in business forever. Specialize in Corvettes but sell all kinds of collector cars. Every Pontiac I have ever looked at in their showroom has been junk or just grossly overpriced. Two friends of mine have sold cars to Mershons and both cars were super nice. They simply took the cars in and flipped them for 40% profit. That's the way it works. The smart money is on a private owner car with a documented history. Usually cost no more.

[TAKerry]

Sorry it didnt work out for you, but I have to say I am not surprised by what you found. Sounds like you handled the situation correctly and having done your homework. I wouldnt expect the dealer to be as knowledgeble as you on this particular car. He looks at it as a very nice classic. Not many people know every detail of every make. I am sure he wasnt doing anything shifty, just what he knew. I think there are some more cars available and you will find one if youre patient.

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

Sorry it didnt work out for you, but I have to say I am not surprised by what you found. Sounds like you handled the situation correctly and having done your homework. I wouldnt expect the dealer to be as knowledgeble as you on this particular car. He looks at it as a very nice classic. Not many people know every detail of every make. I am sure he wasnt doing anything shifty, just what he knew. I think there are some more cars available and you will find one if youre patient.

Yeah I’m ok with it maybe even Schooled the Salesman on a few things, and maybe he will pass on the info we found onto the cars owner. Not that it will matter much, the salesman revealed to us that the owner is a flipper and does no work on the cars he buys for re sale. He has someone fluff them up to look pretty under the LED lights.

[se428bandit]

If your going to spend that much on a 1977/78 i would go for a 78 with the TA 6.6, they use the stronger 988 XX block vs 557 thin cast. In 1978 they are 220 hp vs 200 and the 4 speed will have the 3.42 vs 3.23 in the 1977. Only downside to the '78 over the '77, the deluxe seats in the 1977 (to me) are nicer.

[HO Kenny]

Originally Posted by se428bandit

If your going to spend that much on a 1977/78 i would go for a 78 with the TA 6.6, they use the stronger 988 XX block vs 557 thin cast. In 1978 they are 220 hp vs 200 and the 4 speed will have the 3.42 vs 3.23 in the 1977. Only downside to the '78 over the '77, the deluxe seats in the 1977 (to me) are nicer.

I agree. No stock 70s 302 maverick would keep up to one of those.
But, I don’t think the 3.42 gears were mandatory. A friend has a 78 w72 4 speed formula that definitely had highway gears in it.
2.73 maybe 3.08 but I doubt it.

[TAKerry]

I always get a kick out of people that bash the XXX557 block. Pontiac only built many tens of thousands of them that worked just fine. I have the higher performance version (ta 6.6) in my 77, when it was rebuilt it was 'warmed up' a bit and it runs great and performs fine. Then again it is only a hobby car that goes out on nice weekends, and in my ownership it will not go down a drag strip. Then again, I may be one of the very few people with a classic car that does not need 8million horsepower as bragging rights at the friday night cruise in!

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by se428bandit

If your going to spend that much on a 1977/78 i would go for a 78 with the TA 6.6, they use the stronger 988 XX block vs 557 thin cast. In 1978 they are 220 hp vs 200 and the 4 speed will have the 3.42 vs 3.23 in the 1977. Only downside to the '78 over the '77, the deluxe seats in the 1977 (to me) are nicer.

We know what we want. But thanks anyway.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

I always get a kick out of people that bash the XXX557 block. Pontiac only built many tens of thousands of them that worked just fine. I have the higher performance version (ta 6.6) in my 77, when it was rebuilt it was 'warmed up' a bit and it runs great and performs fine. Then again it is only a hobby car that goes out on nice weekends, and in my ownership it will not go down a drag strip. Then again, I may be one of the very few people with a classic car that does not need 8million horsepower as bragging rights at the friday night cruise in!

Same here...
My 400 has been sitting on an engine stand since 1992, with 100,000 on it. I drove it until the number 7 exhaust lobe was pretty much gone. The rest of the engine held up OK. Although a piston ring was installed upside down on the number 6 cylinder, got that repaired under warranty...

[Firedup6975]

I see the car is back on e bay and up to $20k

[TAKerry]

I would be curious as to whom is bidding on it......

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

I would be curious as to whom is bidding on it......

The funny thing is he told us the cars on e bay are junk, but he is actually the one who is listing this one and the others.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

The funny thing is he told us the cars on e bay are junk, but he is actually the one who is listing this one and the others.

Used car sales folks have always had a bad reputation.....

I wonder why..

[se428bandit]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

I always get a kick out of people that bash the XXX557 block. Pontiac only built many tens of thousands of them that worked just fine. I have the higher performance version (ta 6.6) in my 77, when it was rebuilt it was 'warmed up' a bit and it runs great and performs fine. Then again it is only a hobby car that goes out on nice weekends, and in my ownership it will not go down a drag strip. Then again, I may be one of the very few people with a classic car that does not need 8million horsepower as bragging rights at the friday night cruise in!

I wasn't bashing the 557 block, just listing the pros and cons of both. I use to race my 1977 TA with aTA 6.6 557 block which ran 13.30s @ 104, i drove it everywhere and that was back in the 90's. As far as i know that engines is still running in a Can Am i use to own that was for on Ebay last year. The reason i could recognize it, i sold it with a 455 HO intake on it.

[Ram4king]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

My biggest concern right now is why the Trans has been replaced with that kind of mileage on the car, and if it may have been hit and the driver side door and fender replaced. The other things are easy fixes even though I did price the shifter knob and it’s expensive. Tires seem ok but noticed some rust under one of the doors, so definitely checking that out.

I'm trying to catch up on this thread. Where does it say the trans is replaced? Or how do you kbow it was?

[TAKerry]

Fine or not so fine print in the original ad the dealer had posted on their website said something to the effect that the trans has been replaced. It really is a nice car, just not as original as they are making it out to be. I know a trans swap isnt that easy, but its not all that hard either, I would be concerned if the car was originally a 4 speed with everything else going on.

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by Ram4king

I'm trying to catch up on this thread. Where does it say the trans is replaced? Or how do you kbow it was?

Replaced with a borg Warner T 10 4 speed. Read the description it’s back on e bay now.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Pontia....m46890.l49292

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

Fine or not so fine print in the original ad the dealer had posted on their website said something to the effect that the trans has been replaced. It really is a nice car, just not as original as they are making it out to be. I know a trans swap isnt that easy, but its not all that hard either, I would be concerned if the car was originally a 4 speed with everything else going on.

It was originally a 4 speed, they gave us a copy of the original window sticker from the original dealership.

[TAKerry]

Thats good to know.

[T/A addict]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

Okkkkk

Well this ones a no go! to many things that don’t jive. No PHS documentation, drivers door replaced, rust under the passenger door, car has been re painted, but advertised as touched up, new decals, over spray in the engine compartment, and door jams, one rear tire was completely blown out the side on display that way. They couldn’t explain the transmission swap, has a lot going on for a low mileage car, and they were not really interested in hearing all the things we found wrong, in order to make a fair value offer. Original owner is a flipper. This one could definitely be made nice, but we’re not after another project. I don’t think the salesman liked that we knew so much about these cars, when we pointed out all of it’s faults. We weren’t able to drive it or even see it up on a lift. If we wanted that we had to make an appointment and come back. It did look real pretty under the lights, but just not “the one”

Wow.... Sounds like a whole lot of polishing, lights and camera work on that one... It's a beautiful car but doesn't make sense with that mileage. Good to see you walked away on that one!