[64speed]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Link to Purolator Application Chart:

https://www.pureoil.com/en/do-it-you...filter-lookup/

Go there, insert PBL25288 under part number and it will list all the applications, which include the Pontiac 455 as well as 400's and 428's. For some reason the listings don't go back far enough to include 389's - but we all know that the 389 will take the same filter.

That’s a regular size filter. Won’t clear my headers. I need one that crosses to the Wix 51258

[Kenth]

Purolator PBL25288 is SMALLER than WIX51238.

How can that be a problem?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Navy Horn 16

With the gasket on and no compression, there is 3/32 space. With the gasket off, it's about 1/32. Really tight.

Is this a NEW filter, or the one you unscrewed from the engine?

First Guess: Excess oil pressure distorted the filter, the oil pressure bent the top enough that the gasket can't seal. Figure out why the oil pressure is enough to distort the oil filter. Stuck pressure-relief valve in the oil pump is the likely suspect.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 64speed

That’s a regular size filter. Won’t clear my headers. I need one that crosses to the Wix 51258

Where did you get your data?

The WIX is clearly larger, if you took the time to look up the dimensions. The WIX is 4.338" tall and the Purolator is 4.13" tall. Diameter is 3.66 vs 3.56.

Next question?

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Right from K&N:




So the answer is yes, that the filters have larger pores in the media that are in the interest of not impeding oil flow in the sacrifice of filtering quality. Their air filters use the same philosophy, larger pores sacrificing quality of filtering. You might as well use window screen, lots less restriction for either filter, air, or oil.

And the whole problem goes back to putting an oil filter between the oil pump and the internally oiled engine components, It's just a poor design, because it can't be efficient, while being low restriction. If it actually did the job of keeping the oil clean, and avoiding removing the fine wear items from the oil you wouldn't have to keep flushing the engine with fresh oil.

If you're running a K&N oil, and air filter, you better be flushing the oil really frequently, because neither filter is removing the small particles that end up in the oil. They're saying their products are designed for racing, and frequent oil changes and frequent tear downs. I'd be avoiding their products for street use and durability.

Probably one of the finest spin on filters in my research is the Purolator Boss filter, made by the Mann Corporation. Mann corp. purchased Purolator within the last couple of years. Mann oil filters has always been a well respected name in the premium oil filter arena.

The media of the Boss filter is synthetic, and has a more consistent pore size than cellulose (paper) does. It's not going to be on the level of a by pass filter, but it's a premium oil filter if you're intent on just keeping the factory design intact, without actually spending any money, or time, to improve your filter system.

From the Purolator Boss site:

Choose PurolatorBOSS® for these driving conditions:
Heavy, congested traffic
Frequent short trips and stop-and-go driving
Towing - boat, travel trailer, utility trailer, jet ski, etc.
Off-roading
Extreme temperatures — hot or cold!
Extensive engine idling and frequent engine stops
Mountainous terrain
Dusty conditions - dirt/gravel roads, construction sites, farms, off-road, etc.
Explore the Purolator Oil Filter Guide to learn more


Experience the power of PurolatorBOSS®:
Up to 15,000 miles of engine protection
PuroSEAL Gasket™ made of ethylene-acrylic for longest life
Silicone anti-drainback valve protects against dry starts
Double-helix metal center tube for optimal oil flow
Heavy duty BOSS Steel Casing™ for greater durability to withstand extreme pressure
Over 99% Dirt Removal Power™
Rugged internal construction
Available for the most popular vehicle applications — domestic or import

http://www.pureoil.com/en/do-it-your...urolatorbossr/

I try to use the Boss filters on anything I don't have a by pass filter on. I just did the first initial oil change on my Kawasaki powered Ariens zero turn and used one of these filters, with Pennzoil Platinum synthetic oil.

Good read here about spin on oil filters and the differences, ratings etc:

https://theshopmag.com/features/oil-filters-exposed/

Here's one from Jeff Smith that cites the GM study about how wear is compounded and reduced by filtering out the sub 20 micron particulate that conventional filters leave in the oil to recirculate. He's talking about Fram filters which isn't my choice:

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...ur-oil-filter/

FYI, Mann also bought WIX about 3 years ago. So you have a high quality, filtration group, Mann, WIX and Purolator. Possibly others.

[64speed]

I got the dimensions from Amazon. They must be wrong. I am just looking for the best filter I can fit without jumping thru hoops

[grivera]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I got the dimensions from Amazon. They must be wrong. I am just looking for the best filter I can fit without jumping thru hoops

Here it is in another thread of yours: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ght=Oil+filter

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Tempest T-37

Off topic, but it was likely due to the K&N oil migrating from the air filter to the MAF sensor. They do work well IF the filter is a bottleneck, but there can be side effects if using with a mass airflow based EFI system (unmetered air getting by the oily/dirty MAF and causing a lean condition). I've used them on my turbo Subarus without too much trouble, you just have to clean the MAF more often. I tend to be pretty light with the K&N oil when I clean the filters because of this. I had one on my P350 as well for about 20k miles (that I'm currently building) but it was a low comp, 2bbl so I'm not sure how much difference it really made. The cylinder walls look totally fine, but there's a lot of carbon in it (It had also a stuck PCV when I got the car though.)

Thanks for that 37. You might be on to something. "IF" our track ever opens back up buying a filter from the Toyota dealership and making a few passes might show something.
The truck ran 15 flatish after the filter change. The computer did drop the rev limiter from around 6100 RPM all the way down to 5400RPM. You can disconnect the battery overnight and the truck runs fantastic. Then the computer slows it down if you hammer the gas. Actually this computer controlled fly by wire bu!!cr@p you can not be consistent with your lights and the ETs vary so much its not worth trying to win. Not going to chip the truck, throttle cable and a carb, that's drag racing.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I got the dimensions from Amazon. They must be wrong. I am just looking for the best filter I can fit without jumping thru hoops

Why look at Amazon when you can easily use the WIX filter lookup that I've told you about and linked for you multiple times.

https://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/filterlookup.aspx

Maybe you should bookmark this site....

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by 64speed

That’s a regular size filter. Won’t clear my headers. I need one that crosses to the Wix 51258

Wix 51258 IS the regular size oil filter, why would you want a filter that crosses to this?

I would look at Wix 51522 or ACDelco PF61 or Purolator L, LP or PBL25288 which all are the smaller 1999-2004 Cadillac filter for headers clearance.

Hope this helps some.

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by Tempest T-37

Off topic, but it was likely due to the K&N oil migrating from the air filter to the MAF sensor. They do work well IF the filter is a bottleneck, but there can be side effects if using with a mass airflow based EFI system (unmetered air getting by the oily/dirty MAF and causing a lean condition). I've used them on my turbo Subarus without too much trouble, you just have to clean the MAF more often. I tend to be pretty light with the K&N oil when I clean the filters because of this. I had one on my P350 as well for about 20k miles (that I'm currently building) but it was a low comp, 2bbl so I'm not sure how much difference it really made. The cylinder walls look totally fine, but there's a lot of carbon in it (It had also a stuck PCV when I got the car though.)

We had the same problem some years ago with our Toyota. Switched to K&N air filter based on a mechanic recommendation (not using him anymore). The K&N olied up the MAF sensor as many times as I cleaned it (with Toyota cleaner) until the MAF failed and I replaced it and went back to the stock filters. Nuts on K&N. Staying with WIX or others mentioned in this thread. Thanks to OP for starting a good thread.

[HWYSTR455]

It's been a little while since I've used the K&N oil filters, but, when I did, one thing I noted was that at that time, they did filter to a smaller micron, and, because of that, clogged faster, and around 1500-2000 miles, I saw a noticeable reduction in oil psi.

In the 80s, I found out Fram was not the way to go.

Most of the parts store stuff was garbage, except for a few, such as ACDelco, Motorcraft, and some of the mid-line NAPA stuff.

ACDelco had a bad run when they moved production the MX, but they realized that, and fixed that issue, but some of the damage was already done (user confidence), and it took a while to clear out the warehouse stock.

I run FP24s, never had a psi or flow issue. Yes, I have compared filtration ratings, but some think that more is better, which is not always true.

Think about it, you run a .0026-.0028+ bearing clearance, explain to me how filtering down from .0009 to .0003 is going to make a difference? At that point, the psi/flow is going to save you way before the filtrations level. And most still change oil at 3k miles anyway, so there's limited risk of 'clumping' or build up.

.

.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

It's been a little while since I've used the K&N oil filters, but, when I did, one thing I noted was that at that time, they did filter to a smaller micron, and, because of that, clogged faster, and around 1500-2000 miles, I saw a noticeable reduction in oil psi.

In the 80s, I found out Fram was not the way to go.

Most of the parts store stuff was garbage, except for a few, such as ACDelco, Motorcraft, and some of the mid-line NAPA stuff.

ACDelco had a bad run when they moved production the MX, but they realized that, and fixed that issue, but some of the damage was already done (user confidence), and it took a while to clear out the warehouse stock.

I run FP24s, never had a psi or flow issue. Yes, I have compared filtration ratings, but some think that more is better, which is not always true.

Think about it, you run a .0026-.0028+ bearing clearance, explain to me how filtering down from .0009 to .0003 is going to make a difference? At that point, the psi/flow is going to save you way before the filtrations level. And most still change oil at 3k miles anyway, so there's limited risk of 'clumping' or build up.

.

.

Well I know I've covered this probably twenty times, and GM did their own study, as well as SAE. I posted a link to "On All Cylinders" by Jeff Smith further back in the thread. He references the GM study that the finer the material the more wear it causes, simply because it can flow freely between the bearing wear surfaces and passes right through a standard oil filter and is never removed from the oil. The density keeps building the longer it's left in the engine. Add to that the small particulate attaches to each other and grows in size the longer it's left in the engine.

Part of the explanation from Jeff Smith, of why fine abrasives are the reason for wear in engines:

Micron Inches
10 0.00039
25 0.00098
30 0.00118
40 0.00157ASK-05-02
Fram’s racing filters are designed to increase oil flow through the filter but this comes at the cost of reduced efficiency in terms of dirt below 30 microns. This assumes that the oil will be changed much more often on a race style engine. For this reason, race filters are not necessarily recommended for daily street use.

According to Fram’s Technical Training Manager Jay Buckley, dirt and foreign material measuring smaller than 10 microns will be small enough to be carried in suspension in the oil and will pass through even tight bearing clearances. Material larger than 20 microns is generally considered too large to pass through tight bearing clearances although with performance engines with main bearing clearances of 0.0030-inch, this is certainly possible. But generally speaking, foreign material in the range between 10 and 20 microns will potentially do the most engine damage over time. So a filter that can efficiently filter within this range would offer distinct advantages and certainly reduce engine wear.

These aren't my thoughts, they're coming from some of the top engine people, and filter companies in the automotive field, plus the two aforementioned studies from GM, and SAE.

I've said before many times, the oil filter position is a compromise, which can't be made to keep the small abrasives out of the oil, and still supply adequate oil volume to wear surfaces, really simple. To help this shortcoming you have to keep flushing the small particulate from the engine by frequent oil changes. It's expensive, and as soon as you put fresh oil in, the small particulate starts it's cycle over again of contaminating the fresh oil.

Removing the fine stuff from the oil on the first pass really minimizes the wear effects. Problem is full flow filters cannot ever remove the fine material no matter how many times the oil passes through the full flow filter. A seven fold decrease in wear is fairly substantial, just by removing the abrasives a full flow filter has no way of removing.

There's an obvious answer to the problem, and I'm not going to belabor the answer.

[Navy Horn 16]

I've got a new Wix (NAPA Gold) on and the leak is stopped.

[64speed]

The PF24 that I had on my engine on the break in stand leaked.

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by 64speed

The PF24 that I had on my engine on the break in stand leaked.

Why did it leak?

I´ve been using the PF24´s for at least 30 years and not one has leaked.

[jotrout]

Originally Posted by GTOLou

Happy w/ the HP2006 - headers, 2nd gen. dport. Tight space. Fits well - can get it off and on fine.

I too use the HP2006 for close quarters with Dougs headers on 1966 A body.

[64speed]

I just got the Purolator Boss. It is much smaller. Looks like an LS filter but it looks like it will work. As far as the Pf24 I don’t know why it leaked. I have never had one leak either. It was however old stock from a closing part store so maybe the gasket?

[GTOLou]

Originally Posted by jotrout

I too use the HP2006 for close quarters with Dougs headers on 1966 A body.

And in those tight spaces - having that lug on the bottom helps get it off.