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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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#41
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Yeah, it's about as complicated as mixing oil and gas for your weedeater.
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Greg Reid Palmetto, Georgia |
#42
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No Kidding. That's why my weed eaters run off of 110.
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The Following User Says Thank You to 400 4spd. For This Useful Post: | ||
#43
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Surely, there are many different oil brands out there. Each oil inherently has a different ZDDP content to begin with. Some oils could be so low in ZDDP that a 4 ounce bottle won't do enough good, while oils already high in ZDDP might not need a stitch of your 4 ounce bottle of ZDDP additive. In summary, different oils will end up with different ZDDP levels using your same 4 ounce bottle of additive. That is the only reason I make my "chemist" comment. At the end of the day, can you be absolutely sure you are arriving at the correct balance of ZDDP? This is why I would rather leave this job to professional oil blenders. I trust them to know what the correct level of ZDDP actually is, and I trust them to produce a consistent and repeatable product, bottle after bottle. Last edited by propuckstopper; 01-05-2020 at 03:21 AM. |
#44
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I use Rotella T . It has zinc, but not enough. Too much will hurt Nothing.
Aside from all that, the biggest concern for zinc additive is with a fresh cam and lifters. Cam lobes do harden over time, and They really do not need as much as a fresh built engine might. When you get deeper into this, racing oils have plenty, but are not synthetic, and are Made to change more often. |
#45
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https://www.facebook.com/DrivenRacin...9323793001882/ Driven motor oil with oil analysis results compared to Mobil one racing oil showing more wear with much more ZDDP in a Nascar Truck series engine, and also a 360 sprint car engine. When over a certain threshold the package with more ZDDP actually shows more wear than a lesser amount of the same additive in the Driven oil. More is not better, and actually when it's too much of a concentration it actually accelerates wear rather than fending off wear. Making your own cocktail of oil additives isn't just as simple as pouring in 4 ounces of a concentrate containing ZDDP, and calling it good. The balance of the additive package is critical. Without doing oil analysis you're shooting in the dark mixing additives yourself. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Sirrotica For This Useful Post: | ||
#46
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It’s my understanding that stock engines with mild valve spring pressure don’t need as much zddp as a engine with a hotter cam and stiffer valve springs.
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Two 1975 455 Grandvilles & '79 455 Trans Am ‘69 Camaro SS 396/375 (owned since ‘88) ‘22 Toyota Sequoia V8 ‘23 Lexus LS500 awd ‘95 Ford F-super duty 4wd 7.3 p-stroke & countless Jeeps & off road vehicles. |
#47
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In reference to stockish motors that dont have a lot of spring pressure, and arent running aggressive ramps. Seems like nearly all cam failures happen during break in. Once your cam is work hardened, I have a hard time seeing it go bad due to an 800 ppm zddp level instead of 1200 ppm. The ONLY thing Ive ever seen than made me question this a little is I saw one study that said in paraphrase "After break in, the only time your cam really requires the additive zinc package is during the couple of seconds during startup when the whole engine doesnt have proper oiling yet." Another note with regards to cam failure is that I think some of them come down to good old fashioned user error. How many people rebuild with stouter valve springs than they need?
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
#48
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Since the old Castrol GTX days, and the reduction in Zinc, and installing 4 OZ extra in my Drivers, I have had no issues. I did get my oil tested a few times as one of my customers was a oil testing facility when I was working. When zddp first was offered, I used it in synthetic oil. At 15,000 miles used, the oil still passed all tests for its certification. But, like most folks here in the Lobby, I was , and am not "Racing" Basically speaking ALL current Motor oils from 5 Winter and up to 40 Summer will be 30X better than the non detergent motor oils of old. . |
#49
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The ZDDP is the cheapest additive that chemical engineers could use to fend off flat tappet wear especially during break in. There are other additives that are able to do the same thing, but they are more expensive. It's perfectly plausible to have lower ZDDP concentration and still have other additives carrying the water, instead of ZDDP, you will pay more for oils with other wear agents substituted for ZDDP.
As the engineer says in the video I referenced said, the balance of the additive package is needed to get all the additives working in the same direction. Kind of like getting all the parts in a performance engine working in orchestration. One single part won't give you optimum performance if all the parts don't compliment each other. Balancing the formula to get the most from the sum of all the agents get the best result. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Sirrotica For This Useful Post: | ||
#50
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The engine doesn't have to be a race engine, but I'm sure the blanket statement that, "you can't use too much ZDDP" made by you was only for street engines. It really doesn't matter as long as it's an IC engine, it applies to all reciprocating engines and wear properties of the oil. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Sirrotica For This Useful Post: | ||
#51
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I have a beat to hell CJ5 I’ve owned for years with a 304 for off roading and I never added anything and it has no issues.
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Two 1975 455 Grandvilles & '79 455 Trans Am ‘69 Camaro SS 396/375 (owned since ‘88) ‘22 Toyota Sequoia V8 ‘23 Lexus LS500 awd ‘95 Ford F-super duty 4wd 7.3 p-stroke & countless Jeeps & off road vehicles. |
#52
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#53
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It may be that the community over reacted to the zinc issue (think shark attacks) but for the once a year or two years I change my oil it’s worth it to me. I am going to see if I can order VR1 online from Menards- that’s a good deal.
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#54
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I agree with this. Even though I think people over think it, an extra $15 or $20 once a year for a high quality oil is worth being able to sleep better.
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
#55
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Jeff |
#56
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VR1 for my Goat
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#57
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I installed comp cam roller cam and Scorpion roller rockers can use just about any oil but use Valvoline VR1
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JIM |
#58
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I use VR-1 10w-30 in my drivers. Menards or Napa (during a Napa rewards sale) is the cheapest I can find it. Usually $5-7 a quart. At this price, it is cheaper than using a decent regular oil plus a zinc additive, and you know you have a fully functional oil (no wondering about compatibility, zinc concentration, etc.)
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#59
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Should the question be asked as to how many miles a person drives their flat-tappet engines between oil changes in regards to how much ZDDP is needed? I've heard that there is enough ZDDP in regular oil for around 1000 - 1500 miles on an oil before more ZDDP would be needed. And, how it is driven i.e. - casual street driving vs. racing. Just some thoughts.
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#60
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Jeff |
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