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#281
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for sure with FAKE boobs ,not sure about selling the GTO, maybe put a LS into it then the fake boobs,the LS would have to have GTO engine covers tho
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JIM |
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#282
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You go, sir!
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#283
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Oh no. I'm going to be WAY too busy to bother working on an old car, even an old car with a modern engine. Now where did I put those little blue pills ...
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#284
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don't forget the gold chains and forgetting how to park
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#285
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done and done.
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#286
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I think the should have called it their "Le Mans" engine instead of EcoBoost. Kind of a cave in to the enviros but a fine engine anyway you cut it. |
#287
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ECOBOOST is a generic term for a Ford engine with a Turbocharged Engine under the hood. Ford has done 3.5L engines, 2.7L engines, 2.3L (4 cylinder) engines for many years now. I drive a 2019 Ecoboost F-150 Truck with the 10 speed trans.
Did a basic search on the timing chain issues and some have 100K on their engines with no issues reported. Some other F-150 Forum guys have swapped FEAD parts on their engines as well as "played with things" and they have had timing chain issues on the 2011 to early 2014 engines. Like I said I drive an April built 2019 truck. My early 2016 Ecoboost F-150 ran great. One of the best trucks I ever owned. Not one issue with the truck. Not saying that the Camshafts are not applying a massive load on the chains. The Fuel Pump driven by the timing Chains/Camshaft applies a load on the timing chains. And a lot of the engines repaired were high mileage engines. Seems to me that I was replacing a LOT of TIMING CHAINS and Nylon Upper Timing Gears and a metal lower gear on Firebirds, Tempests, Lemans, and GTOs, and Big Cars because they had engineering problems with Timing Chains and gears in the late 60s and early 70s. So the Pontiac Boys better read up on their history before they throw rocks about suspect engineering. The EFI pump, especially when played with by a tuner, exerts a massive load on the timing chains and gears of the Ecoboost engines. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#288
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Hope there are a few good U Tube videos about it along with a good manual on the subject. You are exactly right on the PMD/nylon timing gear issues. One of my first memories about my father working on our Pontiacs was doing a valve job on our 66 Catalina. Had to be around 1970-71. I was hanging out in the garage asking questions being a annoying kid and when he was done went out on the test drive. He floored it and it ran great until the nylon gear let loose. He was depressed. But, took it apart and replaced it with a all metal one and it ran great. Early lesson, must have been 5-6 years old. |
#289
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Mmm, cooked transmissions...
Even with more efficient torque convertors, there's still slippage. Is the 5000 rpm under
load perhaps used for better coupling, or do they use lockup while it's in this mode? (either way, there's considerably more fluid flow) |
#290
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#291
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The EB stretched chains I referred to were in the earlier pre 2014 F150'S, ALL with under 30k miles. No mods OR tunes on any of them either.
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1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey 1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles 2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4 2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4 |
#292
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"Ray Charles could see that the GM Nylon cam gear/chains were garbage. They affected all divisions back then, not just Pontiac. They were an engineering disaster. The take away is pure planned obsolescence."
In theory you get the best of the best with a nylon coated top sprocket and Morse chain set-up. They provide constant tooth contact, the strength of the Morse/link belt chain design, noise reduction, resist wear on the teeth, absorbs some harmonics and very smooth drive for the camshaft. One of my mentors WAY back in the 1980's ran a very successful drag racing Class car and that's all he used on his engines. I even see him take the same set and move it from engine to engine. He said that it reduced "spark scatter", made more power and worth both ET and MPH compared to a roller style timing set. Theory is fine and I'm sure the engineers meant well with those plastic coated top gear timing sets, however, like many other things that end up in and on these engines they were horrible in long term service. Thousand of heating/cooling cycles caused the plastic to get brittle and start cracking. Then the teeth would start to shred off the gear and end up in the bottom of the oil pan and oil pump pick-up screen. They would eventually fail without warning and leave you walking. It was a black eye for GM and they used them pretty much across the board until they had so many failures they went back to metal top gears again. Tom has always said on here that "engineers do thing for a reason". I'm sure they meant well and saw benefits with the plastic top gear timing sets, however, as stated IF you look at that deal for a moment and think about one making it in long term service......pretty risky deal all the way around IMHO........Cliff
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), Last edited by Cliff R; 01-02-2020 at 08:32 AM. |
#293
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Funny, that is not what the Boys on the F-150 board say. But THIS thread is about the LS guys kicking the Pontiac Engine guys further into history. David Butler, from a hard core Pontiac Family background saw the light and is working with those guys as a smart businessman. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#294
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Tom, Ford did an impressive Stress eval on that V6. The thermal Cycling is rather severe stress (we do that on all High-Rel Spacecraft hardware & it shows in SV lifetimes). The teardown for visual inspection (probably micrometer measures too) is an excellent EOL test measure. You can be proud that a good engineering organization still exists.
BTW; i got permission (this week) to release the PMD Stratostreak 24 Hour Bonney Salt Flat Lifetest done by PMD Engineering, led by Windeler. |
#295
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Thanks HIS.
I really wish I had asked Tom Nell, Herb Adams, or Dudley "Skip" McCully for a list like this one for the Pontiac Engineers: Rich Bronk would have been involved in the Stress Analysis THE 1ST ECOBOOST TEAM Name - Last Name - First Title/Function Phone CDS ID Agathocleous Cindy ... PTSSE Barylski Gary ... Technician Berhan Mike ... Transmission Bidner Dave ... Controls engineer Bottenberg John ... Escape P/T Supv. Brennan Paul ... Escape P/T Mgr Briggs Mike ... Boosting TS Bronk Rich ... CEFET Castro Sal ... Controls Supr. Cepeda Camilo ... Escape P/T Chavdrasekhar N. ... Escape P/T Cockerill Al ... Dyno/Dev Supr Cooper Steve ... Controls engineer Cross Dan ... Engine Design Senior DeRaad Scott ... Transmission & Controls DesErmia Meg ... PTSSE - P/T mounts Esson Scott ... Escape P/T Fascetti Bob ... Escape P/T Mgr Ford Roy ... Taurus P/T Planning Froling Jim ... Engine Systems Design Ginder John ... Powder clutch Goscinski George ... Trans Design Hagner Dave ... Controls engineer Hill Curt P/T ... Systems Supervisor Jiang Hong ... Advance Trans Calibration Kass Jeff ... Engine Design Lee J. Terry ... P/T Controls Mason Rich ... Transmission Designer Nielsen John ... Trans Design Pellerin Mark ... Cooling Senek Gail ... CVSP Shelby Mike ... Engine Development Smith Rich ... CVSP Talakanti Damodar ... Vehicle NVH Tiburzi Harold ... Tech Support Tomilson Don ... Driveline Tripi John ... Taurus P/T PMT Vaughn Tim ... Systems Integration & PM Vaught Tom ... Boosting Senior Design Engr. Vempati Ramu ... Controls engineer Washko Frank ... P/T systems Yousaf Muhammad ... P/T Systems Yuen Lucy ... P/T NVH Easy to see that a program involves a group of people with specific tasks that they are responsible for. So it is a team effort to make things work. I was one member of the team. Tom Nell was one member of the team (as was Herb Adams and Skip McCully. (At the time, Herb Adams was a Manager on a Team but a Performance Guy who refused to be told he could not race his private vehicle on a race course by GM management. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. Last edited by Tom Vaught; 01-02-2020 at 11:00 AM. |
#296
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Looking forward to seeing the Pontiac Info, HIS.
Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#297
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Like I mentioned before if you were planning on swapping to a 4l80e you Might as well kill two birds with one stone and go faster for less in the process. And I dont pop my hood for just anyone either |
#298
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There are a few out there who wanted to provide a product for the Pontiac few:
The Butlers, the KRE guys, the All Pontiac Guys (Bob and Frank, The BOP Guys, Mark and Wade, The Rare Exhaust Guy, and myself, were invited to a meeting at a Track in Virginia to discuss how the group could keep the Pontiac engine alive for a few more years and represent the Pontiac Community and its suppliers at the PRI Shows in Orlando Florida. The KRE Guys did not show. So the above Group did the PRI Show in Florida for several years. Bob and Frank and the Butlers did the Engine and Head stuff The Rare Guy did the exhaust manifolds Mark H and Wade C did the BOP Belt Drive and a bunch of other needed parts. Butler worked out a deal to have Edelbrock supply E-Heads for Pontiacs as well as other needed parts like better intakes. I offered to help the guys with Boost projects down the road. It took a while but at some point I got involved in helping Mark at Luhn Performance with his Boosted Engine projects and Dyno Tests. Mark and I helped Brian H with his project for several years. The Vortech Guys helped with superchargers and actually had a Pontiac GTO kit listed in their Catalog at one time (engineered by them). Mark H at Luhn Performance later took over that work: designing parts, making parts (like his modded oil pumps), doing dyno tests, etc. So years later, many years later, a PY member named Justin S talked to the Butlers and Travis Quillen about doing Twin Turbos on his vehicle because he had an idea to sell a car show concept to the Discovery Channel. Rodney Butler had been running his Twin Turbo GTO and later 63 Tempest on the track. The Butlers/ Travis Q were contracted to help him on his project. So don't ever bad-mouth the Butlers for adding to their Pontiac program with a LS vehicle program for later Pontiacs. I was working for my employer and therefore never took any cash but offered a lot of free advice on boosting over the years to PY members. Same deal with the Holley carb stuff. The name of the original organization we formed, if I remember right was the TEEPEE group. Forget what it means, ask Bob and Frank. So my suggestion is Get off your Easy Chair, and contribute like The Butlers, Travis Q, the RARE Guy, the BOP Guys, Mark at Luhn Performance, Don with his parts, Larry W, and others have done for many years. No criticism for the guys who are in it just for the money though, that is their deal. Even Chief and the Racers out there are in it for the money. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#299
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LS swaps are lame. the only LS I'll have is the one in my YUKON
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************************************* 1968 Lemans. 37,000 original miles. GTO clone. 462ci/KRE 290 heads. UltraDyne 280/288 Solid/850 Qjet by Cliff/Performer RPM/TSP 9.5" in TH400/8.5" 3.42 gears/3950# Race weight/12.58@106 at Bandimere speedway high altitude |
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#300
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In simple terms, that means improving the Pontiac engine. |
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