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#261
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The Following User Says Thank You to JSchmitz For This Useful Post: | ||
#262
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On very very mild grades you get away with 3rd or 4th gear and maybe 3500 rpm at 60-ish mph. But once you hit the mountain grades out here, watch that thing drop to second and scream to 5,000 rpm to maintain maybe 50 mph, and do it for several minutes at a time. Anyone that tows with these things in any type of mountain terrain knows what I'm talking about. I will say, since I've been around LS engines for years and built/daily drove many of them, that I've never seen or had one throw a rod or even spin a bearing in N/A form. I've done cam swaps in them, headers and other mods, with the stock 100k mile short blocks and then continue to put another 100k on them, shifting at 6700 rpm and daily driving them, without a hint of oil usage let alone any other mechanical problems. They are a pretty solid foundation. But that still doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling when towing a load and holding 5,000 rpm for miles at a time. I've been impressed that the thing never overheats like that either, and it gets pretty damn hot here in Arizona. Last edited by Formulajones; 01-01-2020 at 10:14 AM. |
#263
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I have a Pontiac motor in my 79 Camaro and the engine covers say GTO
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JIM |
#264
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Friend of mine that lives in Florida this time of year was just visiting Ohio for the summer, and he tows his classic car back and forth. Used a GM truck for years but decided while he was in Ohio to trade his GM in on a Ford ecoboost truck. Only because the GM dealer didn't have exactly what he wanted.
He just made the trip back to Florida last week. He's already regretting the purchase. Didn't even make it out of West Virginia and the truck overheated and broke down. Blew all the coolant out of it. BRAND NEW ECO-BOOST. Had to leave his trailer and classic car at a rest stop and have the truck towed to a dealer for repair. Made the rest of the trip uneventful, luckily no one bothered his classic while it sat at the rest area. But he's already thinking about trading that one back off for a GM replacement, LOL. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post: | ||
#265
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I hope that wasn't directed at me. I recognize the LS for what it is, it's hot rodding. The typical
LS swap is usually poorly executed and ends up somewhere between two different worlds. But a well built example can bridge that gap. People who require acceptance simply don't have a grasp on their situation. B-man certainly isn't apologizing or making excuses. The guy who built Mutant II wasn't worried about ruffled feathers either. |
#266
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Some people will complain if their hands are sore from catching diamonds!
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#267
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(;>) Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#268
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Also a smoking issue from turbo seal issues is caused by excessive crankcase pressures, or poor crankcase venting. The turbo needs a very low pressure in the oil pan to drain the CHRA properly. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. Last edited by Tom Vaught; 01-01-2020 at 12:17 PM. |
#269
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My father has a 2.7 Ecoboost that blew up at less than 20k miles of light duty. But that is just a single data point and it would be unreasonable to make broader inferences. If there had been an Ecoboost F150 with the heavy payload package or a Super Duty gasser in town for about the same price as my 6.0 2500HD, I would have had a really tough choice to make. But I specifically wanted a base model crew cab standard bed with a rear locker, the Chevy dealer had one at 20% off MSRP, so I pulled the trigger.
I suspect I will be getting ****ty gas mileage and towing at unreasonable engine speeds for a long, long time before my 6.0 engine gives up. At that point, I will start a thread about how to convert a 2016 2500HD over to a Pontiac stroker. Probably have to move to Haiti or something to get away with that ... |
#270
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Disclaimer: What I'm about to type up is from a place of ignorance, so please excuse anything that's off the wall or pushing long debunked myths about Pontiacs. I just have questions.
One of the complaints I used to remember hearing about Pontiacs were that they were "slow revving engines". I haven't seen it bandied up in years, but I'm only getting back into cars after a decade or more long hiatus, and I've never been more than a backyard tuner on my own stuff. I'd assume that it's because of the low-rpm/high torque (especially from the 455's) nature of Pontiacs. Engineers were moving heavy cars at low RPMs, the party was usually over at 5000-5200RPM. But that seems like what they were designed for, low end high torque with a long low power band. Contrast this to the LS engines. Now I have no personal experience with them. At most, I've only seen them on motor trend or youtube. But something that stands out to me is how quickly they seem to 'wrap-up'. I assume this is because the LS's powerband is much higher and it's a byproduct of that same consideration of design? Or am I just hearing things in relation to the engines I'm used to? They are what I assume are usually crate motors on these shows so they must be tuned. Other posters seem to confirm the powerband question with towing at 5 grand and being able to spin the motors up to 6700 RPM. I'd also assume the LS has a lighter rotating assembly? I know the gearing in both the overdrive transmissions and the rear end is going to make a difference. But would lighter pistons/rods/crank and maybe balancing have anything to do with how they act and how quickly they end up in their strongest power band? It seems to me that while the Pontiacs are a good base, it's hard to keep up with the march of 40+ years of engine design and engineering. It would be interesting to see what Pontiac engineers could have done with MPFI, long tuned intake runners, knock sensors, aluminium blocks and heads, hydraulic roller cams and the like that seem to be a staple of design today. |
#271
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Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#272
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I only went with a duramax for a few reasons. I already had a beautiful 79 1 ton 454/400 turbo that I towed with for more than 20 years and was happy. Best damn truck I ever had. But the single cab with a growing family started to raise concerns, plus my parents moving out and ride sharing, 5 of us wouldn't work. I couldn't find a suitable 70's crew cab with a BBC so I started looking at newer trucks. Neighbor already had a duramax and borrowed my 28' enclosed trailer one day, I rode along. I was hooked at that point as that thing yanked my trailer around like it wasn't even there. So a crew cab duramax is what I ended up with. It's now 15 years old and paid for. It can haul 5 people comfortably and tows like nothing else. I just hope it lasts me the rest of my life because I don't want to spend $70k on a new one LOL |
#273
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He thought that maybe he cooked the engine but the dealer was able to repair and get him back on the road. I think that was the nail in the coffin for him though, being brand spanking new and already a major repair. |
#274
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Back on Pontiac Engines again. Pontiac engines with boost can make the same power or more than say the Old Ford 302/347/351W which for years dominated the Power Adder classes in the NMCA, etc drag racing events. They have more cid and less need for high rpm. 95% of the Pontiac guys would be happy with a solid 8 second car that would be easy on boost and on rebuilds. Pro Bird comes to mind. Problem is you need the KRE or All Pontiac type blocks to run there consistently. Not so much the heads as Chief proved that deal many times.
Tom V. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#275
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I can say the 6.2 gas in my 2015 1/4 ton Chevy gets better gas mileage than my 2004 GTO LS except when towing. Then towing a 18' trailer with my 3700lb TA to Camaro gets about 14 mpg and has plenty of power to pull it-for sure compared to the old 350 Vortec in my '97.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs Last edited by Skip Fix; 01-01-2020 at 01:19 PM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Skip Fix For This Useful Post: | ||
#276
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#277
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So for instance I figure I'll get a travel trailer around 6k lbs and tow it for the most part on country roads with a 55 mph speed limit - no steep interstate climbs for me. A gas HD truck makes perfect sense. You add some steep climbs on interstates with a 70 mph limit or change it to a 10k trailer, probably going to be unhappy right? Same deal with a Pontiac vs. LS engine. You want to run 12's or high 11's, 500 horsepower, no problem with a Pontiac. But if you are going to hand-calculate your gas mileage every tank and grumble about how an LS engine could have gotten a few more mpg than your Pontiac stroker, then maybe you should be in the junkyard looking for an LS swap. |
#278
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1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey 1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles 2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4 2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4 |
#279
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I guess this is a moot point for me. I have a 98 Trans Am convertible with the LS-1 motor, and a 69 Bird with the 400 Pontiac. I like what each brings to the table but the 69 gets a lot more smiles per mile than the 98 does, although it gets a fair share.
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#280
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Sometimes I think old cars are too much work. I am going to sell my 65 GTO, get a brand new Corvette convertible (red, of course), some leather driving gloves, hair plugs, a spray tan, and a 22 year old girlfriend with fake boobs.
See ya fellas. Wish me luck! |
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