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#1
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head bolt question
I bought a set of arp head bollts for my 428 from summit. They were in a small box so I put the heads on after putting on new head gaskets torqued them down and that is about all I did that day
. I jump back on the engine the next day and in another box I find black washers that look like they fit the head bolts. I have never put washers on any head bolt before but I am thinking maybe I made a mistake not installing the washers. Question is do I remove the bolts and install washers and do I need to put new head gaskets on as well or just do one bolt at a time Also torque arp said 100 pounds and pontiac says 80 pounds which is correct. This install is going real slow. First I wait a week for new motor mounts then out of town for two weeks. Then the water pump is too long so wait 1 week to get the correct one from Ames then out of town for 12 days. Then I put the crank and water pump pulleys on and they are touching. Ordered a smaller crank pulley as old one is hittting the frame and it is time for me to go out of town as soon as I get it. |
#2
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Use the washers in the box. Also, dig out and use the special lube in the box. Torque with the washers and the lube to ARP spec. Head gasket will be fine.
Sam
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-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
#3
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Washers go under the bolts. Yes remove the bolts and install the washers, no need to change head gaskets. But torque to ARP specs.
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#4
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i would do one bolt at a time in the correct torque sequence. when installing the washer install the beveled edge down. make sure to use the ARP lube. think of this as retorquing the head bolts, which you would have needed to do anyway.
use the ARP torque spec
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1979 Firebird Trans Am 301/4spd (Now 428) 1977 Firebird Formula 400/Auto 2007 Grand Prix GXP 5.3L |
#5
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As I remember no lube between the washer and the head?Washer is supposed to not turn.Tom
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#6
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On the SD Performance website, Dave recommends checking had bolt thread length, especially if heads have been milled. If there are not enough threads on a head bolt (saying that IF the smooth shank of the bolt sticks out past the head surface OR is real close) you will need washers. Of course this needs to be done with head off the engine... IF it were mine, I'd take the heads back off and check them!!!
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1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
#7
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There is allot going on in this thread with your questions as well as the answers. Best possible way to proceed would be to pull the heads and start over. But IMO, that's not necessary unless the block and heads have been machined an unknown amount. If the block and heads have been machined just to get the surfaces flat, you should be fine with the torquing washers provided. If your not sure, then removing the heads and checking bolt protrusion through the head is all you can do. The beveled inside of the washers goes toward the head of the bolt and the square edge faces the cylinder head. I would coat the threads of the bolts and both sides of the washer with ARP lube. You want the washer to act as a bearing and it doesn't matter if the washer spins or the bolt spins on the washer. They are hardened and parallel ground. What you are after is clamp load. Torque the fasteners to the ARP spec. for their hardware. If you remove the heads, I would replace the gaskets if a composition type. If they are a Cometic or other MLS gasket, you can use them over because you have not made it to the final clamp load yet. 80 LB vs 100 lb with ARP lube. Good luck with the build.
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#8
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Absolutely NOT!
The bevel is to provide clearance for the extended fillet between bolt shank and bolt head. therefore the bevel goes against the bolt head--it faces UP. Quote:
From the ARP web-site https://arp-bolts.com/p/FAQ.php Quote:
Quote:
If the block wasn't torque-plate honed...I'd stay with stock torque and engine oil for lube, exactly as Pontiac intended. (I'd also be using OEM bolts in that case, not ARP.) Last edited by Schurkey; 05-27-2019 at 07:07 PM. |
#9
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Thanks for all the replys. I didnt have any original head bolts that is why I didnt reuse them. Machine shop rebuilt the short block only. Bought the heads from a friend and had a valve job done. Have to check to see if I have any arp lube left. If not can I buy that at like auto zone?
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#10
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Quote:
Thank you Schurkey, I was just about to reply that i made a mistake on this comment. Bevel goes up.
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1979 Firebird Trans Am 301/4spd (Now 428) 1977 Firebird Formula 400/Auto 2007 Grand Prix GXP 5.3L |
#11
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head bolt
Arp instructions. Head bolts for my aluminum heads. I don't know where the 80 lb/ft comes from. My info says that is for a 231 6 cylinder ( if you believe a 1975 Chilton book). All other info I've researched says Pontiac V8's are 95.
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Frank M. 75 Firebird 68 Firebird 400 RAIII 66 Chevy II 461 Pontiac in AZ Last edited by tooski; 05-27-2019 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Added text |
#12
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Quote:
I'd still remove the heads to check, since you are using aftermarket bolts..
__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
#13
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Seriously, check for an instruction sheet in the box or Google your part number. I saw instructions above saying to lube only the threads and underside of bolt head. And yet I just last week put the head bolts into my engine and the ARP instructions were to lube threads, underside of bolt and underside of washer. Products change, instructions change. You need the right instructions for the actual bolts you have. If the paper isn’t in the box then look it up online. And definitely use the ARP lube and spec.
Sam
__________________
-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
#14
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Line 7. 'Lubricate under the head of the bolt and the washers"
I took that to mean to have lube between the bolt head and washer and between washer and head.
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Frank M. 75 Firebird 68 Firebird 400 RAIII 66 Chevy II 461 Pontiac in AZ |
#15
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That is the information I referenced as well. I would follow manufacturers recommendations but can't see why creating a sliding surface on both sides of the hardened washer would have any negative effect on clamp load. I will try to find more information.
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#16
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https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...ng-head-bolts/
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#17
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Quote:
I am never too old to learn. I guess I have been doing this wrong for 50+ years. Never a failure. Damn lucky, I guess. |
#18
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Mike,post 5!Tom
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