[6t7goat]

My daughter called and asked if i could change her oil. Single mom and money is tight. Of course i say yes. She brings car over today. 2012 Camry. I drain the oil and pull the filter canister to change the paper element. No filter!!! I look at the sticker its from a quick lube place I could not believe she has been driving this car with no oil filter for 10k miles. I have the oil and was considering sending it to be analyzed. I didnt call the place today because i knew I wouldn’t get anybody with any authority. I will be calling tomorrow but dont know how much luck i am going to have. What would you do?

[getmygoat]

Life is too short, let it go. Just don't take it there again.

[Heybuck]

Cut your losses and forget about it. You won't win because they will simply deny it. If you had taken the car in to them for another oil change, they might have said there was no filter and at that point you could have made a serious noise that it was THEM that did the last change.

Right now you are in a better place. Your daughter is trusting you to look after her. Remind her that her last effort at not inconveniencing you has raised a problem. From now on, I suggest she continues to trust you to the task. In the end, this has turned into a win-win situation

Good luck

Ian

[MUSLCAH]

A canister element ? I thought those were extinct....like my old 63 Chevy had a canister.

[Simple Man]

I might call them, and explain the situation. Maybe get a free oil change.

[Chief of the 60's]

Good thing it is a Toyota.

[Firedup6975]

Any chance it was installed but wasn’t tight and fell off?

[72pontiac]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

Any chance it was installed but wasn’t tight and fell off?

it is a cartridge the gets replaced inside of a removeable canister that is attached to the engine. apparently no cartridge was installed.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Go tell the MGR the "heads up", maybe he needs to know, and spring for the complimentary oil change.

[John V.]

And I always thought the biggest worry was having an idiot strip out the drain plug threads!

No chance your daughter had somebody else change the oil since the quick lube shop did it? Surely nobody stole it out from under her car!

Assuming not, I would definitely not let this just go. No telling how much engine life has been lost by someone's stupid decision. I'd call it a mistake, but hard to believe even a newbie didn't realize he was reinstalling an empty canister.

Maybe get them to pay for the oil analysis and pray that the oil is still clean.

Then have them refund the price of at least 2 oil changes. Not coupons for free future changes, but actual cash money, Why would you ever take it back to their shop??!!

If your daughter has used this shop multiple times, try to get a refund for EVERY oil change they ever did for her, most shops have records and will know how many times they changed her oil. Who knows when they stopped installing cartridges in her car?

If they aren't profuse in their apologies and offer as much or more than you ask for, suggest that you'll be talking to your good friend Eddie Farah.

I always believe you play the cards you're dealt and would never think of going the legal route. But this goes beyond the pale. An oil change shop that can't get it right on a Camry shouldn't even be in business. And an engine that has been excessively worn due to poor maintenance has a real cost in terms of depreciation that would be measured in hundreds of dollars if not thousands.

I hope you (and your daughter) gets some satisfaction. Good luck!

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by MUSLCAH

A canister element ? I thought those were extinct....like my old 63 Chevy had a canister.

This was part of the Al Gore and his buddies idea to rid the landfills of partially filled oil filters leeching into the soil. Some major manufacturers bought into the idea right away, like Toyota, GM on many models, Chrysler too. Others have steadfastly refused to use the cartridge style, Honda, Ford are a few examples. I thought it was the dumbest idea ever until I got used to changing them. Many of them are on the top of the engine and very easy to get to and change, especially on a hot engine. Some, like Toyota are underneath and a hot mess to change. Toyota went a step further and made the end cap on many of them plastic rather than the original aluminum design. They are prone to crack and leak when they get over 100K miles and many engines have been lost by running out of oil and a huge mess. I replace the plastic ones with an aluminum cap when I change one over 100K. Doorman makes an aluminum replacement one now as well as the dealer. Overall I am OK with the canister vs a spin on. Depends on the location. Cost is about the same, which means their is more profit in a canister element. Drain back and bypass valves are in the housing, not the element.

[getmygoat]

Volvo has the canister type also. Seems ok. Its all about the position, so when unscrewed the oil can run right to the pan.

[Chris65LeMans]

My wife’s (Toyota) RAV4 has one of those cartridge filters. No way the element fell out or got stolen - as has been mentioned: they are below the engine- you unscrew the holder like a normal filter works, then pull the paper element out.

Trick to unscrewing the holder - don’t buy the Toyota tool - they are junk. Buy the U shaped one off of EBay.

[MYGOAT]

Let it go. You won't get anywhere with it. You will just get angrier as they will deny it.
My Son in-law bought a brand new Ford and took it into the dealer for its first ever service. He not mechanically inclined is any way so trusted the dealer. Anyway they came to visit us after picking the car up and as they were leaving I noticed a large puddle of fresh oil on the ground where he had parked. I stopped him and said something was definitely wrong. Looked under the car and oil was dripping pretty badly from the engine. I got the floor jack out and lifted the car so I could have a look. Saw that the oil filter which sits on the firewall side of the engine was damaged and leaking.
It was obvious that a junior employee that got the job to change the oil filter had crushed the body of using one of those band type tools. Being the first oil change I assumed some pissed of worker at the plant had really screwed it on beyond tight. Failing to get the old one off, looks like the junior employee decided to just leave it. He failed to notice that in crushing the body it must have split.
I told the Son In-law that he obviously can't drive it as when I checked the dipstick there was no oil showing at all and who knows if this brand new engine has been compromised.
It was towed to the dealer where they as expected denied it was their doing and they were basically accusing the Son In-law of having tampered with it after the service.
What they did realize is that he is a lawyer and he went ballistic (as far as a lawyer does) and threatened to sue.. He is also pretty conservative and just got them to sign a document to say that if there are future engine problems that could be contributed to lack of oil that they will take of it. Personally I would insisted on a brand new replacement car. Hard to find quality workmanship nowadays, even at dealers.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans

My wife’s (Toyota) RAV4 has one of those cartridge filters. No way the element fell out or got stolen - as has been mentioned: they are below the engine- you unscrew the holder like a normal filter works, then pull the paper element out.

Trick to unscrewing the holder - don’t buy the Toyota tool - they are junk. Buy the U shaped one off of EBay.

Agree, no way the filter fell out. Just another example of "quality" quickee oil change shop idiots.

OReilly's offers a stamped steel cupped shaped tool for removing the cartridge cover. It's around $8, works fine. Am no longer a big O'Reilly's fan, but they do stock Wix filters and this tool.

[Fullsize455]

Don't waste time listening to anyone who says to just let this go - they are absolutely wrong.

I have said this time and time again, and will keep saying it as long as I have to until people get it. When you let things like this go without taking them to task for it, all you're doing is enabling them. Yes, YOU are enabling them. YOU are part of the problem when you don't call out your mechanic for crap like this. YOU are part of the reason why this keeps happening.

Why? It's very simple. There's a couple odd potential scenarios here:

This was a genuine human mistake
This was an intentional bit of deceit by a mechanic who wanted to cheap out on the cost of a filter
This was an intentional bit of deceit by a mechanic who didn't have the filter on hand like he thought but didn't want to wait for one to show up.
This was an intentional bit if a deceit by a scumbag service writer/shop owner that is to blame for B or C.

In ALL cases, it is imperative that you hold the shop accountable for this.

If it was a genuine human mistake, and the mechanic gives half a ****, it will serve as a sobering wake up moment that will prompt them to use extra care in the future to make sure it doesn't happen again.

If it was a deceitful action by a dishonest shop/mechanic, by letting it go and letting them get away with their deceit, you only enable them to continue on with their deceit. Yes, YOU enable them to be deceitful.

I say this as a mechanic who holds my own damn self acountable to every customer I work for. I educate them and everyone else I know on how NOT to get deceived by shady/sheisty mechanics. One of the most important lessons is to never let anyone get away with deceit. EVER.

There is a simple reality in the world of automotive repair: Many mechanics are dishonest. Maybe the majority. A considerable minority are downright deceitful and don't give two ****s about you or your car. By letting stuff like this go and not holding them accountable, you are partially to blame. I don't care if you have more important things to worry about in life, I don't care if you foolishly try to boil this down to just the cost of an oil change. It's not about that at all. It's about principle. It's about integrity and making sure the people you hire to do your work for you are honest.

I hear people tell me nearly every day that they'd rather just let this go, let that go. It drives me nuts! How the hell is it that you people don't seem to care about getting screwed? I don't care if you're Jeff Bezos or living check to check, it isn't about the money as much as it's about the principle. You have to hold people accountable for their BS or the whole problem just gets worse. Do you really want to keep being part of the problem, making it worse for everyone else? That's what you're doing by letting this kind of stuff go.

Bad mechanics can only persist and carry on doing business as bad mechanics when people let them. STOP LETTING THEM and these problems start getting fewer and farther between.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Agree, no way the filter fell out. Just another example of "quality" quickee oil change shop idiots.

OReilly's offers a stamped steel cupped shaped tool for removing the cartridge cover. It's around $8, works fine. Am no longer a big O'Reilly's fan, but they do stock Wix filters and this tool.

I bought a stamped tool just like that from the Toyota dealer, and always had the hardest time getting the damn thing off the cover. The last time I tried, it wouldn't budge, so I just left it on there. Of course, it fell off sometime when she was driving. The U-shaped tool works much better if anyone else had that problem.

[Heybuck]

Originally Posted by Fullsize455

Don't waste time listening to anyone who says to just let this go - they are absolutely wrong.

I have said this time and time again, and will keep saying it as long as I have to until people get it. When you let things like this go without taking them to task for it, all you're doing is enabling them. Yes, YOU are enabling them. YOU are part of the problem when you don't call out your mechanic for crap like this. YOU are part of the reason why this keeps happening.

Why? It's very simple. There's a couple odd potential scenarios here:

This was a genuine human mistake
This was an intentional bit of deceit by a mechanic who wanted to cheap out on the cost of a filter
This was an intentional bit of deceit by a mechanic who didn't have the filter on hand like he thought but didn't want to wait for one to show up.
This was an intentional bit if a deceit by a scumbag service writer/shop owner that is to blame for B or C.

In ALL cases, it is imperative that you hold the shop accountable for this.

If it was a genuine human mistake, and the mechanic gives half a ****, it will serve as a sobering wake up moment that will prompt them to use extra care in the future to make sure it doesn't happen again.

If it was a deceitful action by a dishonest shop/mechanic, by letting it go and letting them get away with their deceit, you only enable them to continue on with their deceit. Yes, YOU enable them to be deceitful.

I say this as a mechanic who holds my own damn self acountable to every customer I work for. I educate them and everyone else I know on how NOT to get deceived by shady/sheisty mechanics. One of the most important lessons is to never let anyone get away with deceit. EVER.

There is a simple reality in the world of automotive repair: Many mechanics are dishonest. Maybe the majority. A considerable minority are downright deceitful and don't give two ****s about you or your car. By letting stuff like this go and not holding them accountable, you are partially to blame. I don't care if you have more important things to worry about in life, I don't care if you foolishly try to boil this down to just the cost of an oil change. It's not about that at all. It's about principle. It's about integrity and making sure the people you hire to do your work for you are honest.

I hear people tell me nearly every day that they'd rather just let this go, let that go. It drives me nuts! How the hell is it that you people don't seem to care about getting screwed? I don't care if you're Jeff Bezos or living check to check, it isn't about the money as much as it's about the principle. You have to hold people accountable for their BS or the whole problem just gets worse. Do you really want to keep being part of the problem, making it worse for everyone else? That's what you're doing by letting this kind of stuff go.

Bad mechanics can only persist and carry on doing business as bad mechanics when people let them. STOP LETTING THEM and these problems start getting fewer and farther between.

I agree with everything you are saying here but the BIG problem is, how do you prove it?? You can't. It will be denied right to the end and who wins then? A lot of angry people.

I would say your first scenario is probably the most likely - he just forgot to fit it in. Maybe the others are possibilities but if they genuinely decided not to put it in, they would be fools. If they really did not have a new one in hand, just put the old one back. Who would know after just a mile or 2 of driving. The new oil will still look new even if it had picked up a bit of old dirty oil as it passes through.

Sure, go and confront them but the only lever 6t7goat has is to tell them that they have lost some business and the word will be continually spread. What we haven't been told is how much time has passed? If it was only a week or so, you just might have a case but 10K miles..... That's going to take a fair old time to rack up those miles so the quick lube place will have no recollection of the situation even if they wanted to remember.

But I still say, the bigger picture is now his daughter will trust her dad to look after things on her car. She will take this as a lesson and not go to the cheapo place for a lube. You do really only ever get what you pay for in the end.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Go tell the MGR the "heads up", maybe he needs to know, and spring for the complimentary oil change.

Why would anyone want to get a "complimentary oil change" from a place that is so incompetent?

[Elarson]

My guess is that the tech took the old filter out and tossed it in the trash, then discovered that they didnt have a new one. With the cartridge, it's easy to just put the cap on and not say anything. You couldn't get away with that with a spin-on filter.

Eric