[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 6x400gmc

Look at diesel locomotives. When I turned wrenches on big 4 stroke Alco's (and later 2 stroke EMD's) the oil was NEVER changed, just added to, and new filter elements every 92 days along with an oil analysis.

They were always extremely clean inside the block when we'd pull the covers to check generator alignment and so on. Having said that, these were two short lines which were extremely anal on engine maintenance.

Britt

When I graduated from high school I worked at the Erie Pa GE locomotive plant where at that time the assembled and tested the engines in the diesel electro units. They also refurbished engines for the railroads. The engines when torn down were as you described pretty much spotless inside. They also painted the entire inside of the engines with GE Glyptal paint so nothing stuck to the inner cast surfaces, a long time before the hipo engine builders started painting their engines on the interior surfaces.


Many industrial engines never have their oil changed and many times run 24/7 so filter changes and make up oil is all they have in the way of maintenance. They have much longer engine life than their automotive equivalent. By pass filtering is so far superior to the inefficient system that Detroit engineered, it's like night and day...…….

[6x400gmc]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

When I graduated from high school I worked at the Erie Pa GE locomotive plant where at that time the assembled and tested the engines in the diesel electro units. They also refurbished engines for the railroads. The engines when torn down were as you described pretty much spotless inside. They also painted the entire inside of the engines with GE Glyptal paint so nothing stuck to the inner cast surfaces, a long time before the hipo engine builders started painting their engines on the interior surfaces.


Many industrial engines never have their oil changed and many times run 24/7 so filter changes and make up oil is all they have in the way of maintenance. They have much longer engine life than their automotive equivalent. By pass filtering is so far superior to the inefficient system that Detroit engineered, it's like night and day...…….

I forgot about the Glyptol, pretty much everything was covered in it internally - engines, main and aux generators, traction motors and blowers, etc.

Also, the filters on Alco 12-251's are horizontally mounted canisters with seven filter elements. We never filled those before startup either.

In answer to the OP's question, I prefill my filter on the 428 because that's what my dad taught me to do when I was 10 or so, so it just stuck.

Britt

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Just face it, you love to argue and it shows..

Oh the irony in this statement.

Lets just agree that you do not care if your bearings are screaming for help while most others in this thread do and leave it at that. Kapeesh?

[Tom Vaught]

My 64 GTO has never seen a Oil Change shop in its lifetime, as far as I know.
Either GM Techs did the service on the car at the "BRASS HAT Garage" for the GM Executives or I did it.

My Uncle's Pontiac Dealership had all of the OIL Change hoists for the customers and he had a guy named "Zollie" who probably changed thousands of filters in his many years working at the place. He taught me how to do a "proper oil change" (His Words) and it always involved filling the oil filter with oil and filling the "Oil Addition" fill bucket (with the swinging fill spout) with the proper amount of oil. No opening individual oil cans for the business. 55 gallon drums of Wolf's Head oil.

He wanted the "oil light" to go out very quickly after he started the vehicle.

Then the engine would run, with a pipe on the exhaust, (Engine on hoist) and we would verify no leaks anywhere. Dip stick final check and out the door it went.
Exactly the same every time.

I did an analysis on that Wolf's Head 10w30 oil one time in Fuels and Lubes Engineering Class and it was very good oil.
Zollie said always run a Pennsylvania Grade Oil. "No Shell off-shore crap." his words not mine.

Tom V.

[dataway]

I usually spit in the filter so the engine always has a little of me inside it.

Never thought about the unfiltered aspect. Would suck it you filled the filter with oil and that happened to be the one quart in 10,000 has that has shredded foil, plastic bottle bits, factory debris, or who knows what in it, and then it gets sent right to the bearings.

Would be interesting to know the percentage of the millions of quarts of oil sold every week that end up with some kind of particulate contamination from the factory. If it's anything like the food in grocery stores, it's probably scary.

[Tom Vaught]

You could actually check for that if you had a OIL PUMP TEST RIG like Luhn Performance came up with. For their custom Oil Pump Mods.

Tom V.

[Region Warrior]

Anyone watch their O/P gage on start up after O/C?
All my vehicles the needle almost moves immediately after starting.

[MUSLCAH]

Back when you were a kid and didn’t know bettah.....you changed your oil on you 63 Chevy with the canister and the element inside....and didn’t install that rubber gasket/ seal...then started it up. That oil came a flying out,real quick like. Iam sure it takes a nano second for it to fill up.

[SIX8YAK]

Originally Posted by 6x400gmc

Look at diesel locomotives. When I turned wrenches on big 4 stroke Alco's (and later 2 stroke EMD's) the oil was NEVER changed, just added to, and new filter elements every 92 days along with an oil analysis.

They were always extremely clean inside the block when we'd pull the covers to check generator alignment and so on. Having said that, these were two short lines which were extremely anal on engine maintenance.

Britt

What railroads did you work for?

[6x400gmc]

Originally Posted by SIX8YAK

What railroads did you work for?

Volunteer diesel mechanic at the Gulf Coast Railroad Museum in Houston (working on Alco 6-539's)

Arkansas and Missouri Railroad (working on Alco 12-251 and 8-251's)

Econorail in Houston (working on 12-567's)

I was an engineer for the Arizona and California Railroad for a while, but never made it into the shop.

Britt

[SIX8YAK]

Originally Posted by 6x400gmc

Volunteer diesel mechanic at the Gulf Coast Railroad Museum in Houston (working on Alco 6-539's)

Arkansas and Missouri Railroad (working on Alco 12-251 and 8-251's)

Econorail in Houston (working on 12-567's)

I was an engineer for the Arizona and California Railroad for a while, but never made it into the shop.

Britt

Some neat sounding prime movers all abound. I work for the BNSF so I was just curious.

[76TA462]

Never have in the past 38 years I have owned my TA 455 (nor in other cars). Never had a problem and have done this since day one and even after the most recent performance build six years ago. I change my oil and filter religiously, and in any event, with the headers I have to frig around so much getting the filter in and out that the oil would be lost and make a huge mess. Is this right or wrong, I have no clue. Have I had a problem with engine longevity, absolutely not. Tear downs between builds have never shown wear. The builds were for performance, not refreshment.

[David Jones]

Where possible, yes. The filter on my 2.7 EcoBoost is in a canister on top of the engine. I don’t think it ever has oil in it at cold startup?

[lucky1]

Always.

[thepontiacman]

I do always.

I had a 68 GTO one time and had a local shop change my oil because I was in hurry to get it done to go somewhere. He didn't fill the oil filter as I thought he had. When he started my engine I heard a knock then it ran fine. I was kinda mad at the time because I knew the guy and thought he knew what he was doing.
Since then I change the oil and filter. Just my opinion .

[GTO JONES]

I all ways have and will.

[Sirrotica]

FYI, Purolator has a YouTube video of how to change oil and oil filters for the DIYer. Here is the link to it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gomC...TIABBpByPCfpA-

At the 2:00 mark they tell you to use your finger to spread a small bit of oil on the gasket and then screw the EMPTY filter on to the oil filter adapter.

Wix also has a DIY video for oil and oil filter changes:

http://www.wixfilters.com/Resources/WixVideo.aspx

At :30 seconds they also apply oil to the gasket and screw an empty oil filter to the adapter.

Baldwin also has a video, same instructions, oil on gasket and they install an empty oil filter. Seems no oil filter manufacturer recommends filling the oil filters before installing them, it must not be critical to fill them.

Genuine Caterpillar filters have stenciled on the filter "DO NOT PREFILL FILTER" because filling the center of the filter exposes the engine to debris that could go directly into the oil system, as has already been mentioned by more than one poster.

You can take this for whatever it's worth, myself I would yield to companies that has been making filters for the automotive field for over 100 years to be the definitive expert on what is the proper procedure in installing an oil filter during an oil change. If Purolator, Wix, Cat, and Baldwin, don't know more about oil filters, and how to properly install them, I really don't know who would.

I really don't care what anyone does one way or the other, you do whatever makes you sleep well..……………….

[taff2]

Yes, always fill the filter,it is the right way to do it. When you start the engine on a dry filter-In the two seconds it takes to fill the filter and internal oilways your bearings are seeing no oil pressure -basically just fresh air with a smear of oil. Which is why 90% of engine wear occurs on start up, and why you should never rev up the engine as soon as you start it.

[Kenth]

Using the right engine oil viscosity is more important than pre-filling the filter.
Imagine pre- filling the filter with 20w50 syrup, instant oil pressure at oil filter adapter, still ticking lifters due to lack of lubrication.

FWIW

[68 Firebird]

X2 what Kenth just said. I was always afraid to run lighter than 15W40. No complaints
with 15W40 just some tapping at startup. No tapping at all with 10W30 VR1, even when
temps are cold and car has sat for a few weeks.

And I can't prefill filter since I have RARE long branch manifolds and angled oil filter
mount, it tight. Lets just say its a pain to change. just put oil on filter seal and install.

Gerry