[LATECH]

Do all 64 GTO s have a large/ poor turning radius?

Mine seems to. I have changed from a manual box to a power.

I dont need lectured on different stops in the box etc. Been reading all the threads.

I do have a small gap at the suspension stops left and right on the control arms when I turn left to right and hit the stops in the box.
The box came off a 71 GTO/lemans so ...

I have pondered pitman arm length , but there is only 1 for 64 -72 unless I am missing something
I am thinking the stops are not "Ideal" in the box for the steering geometry ....PERIOD.

What I would like is to open a discussion and t hear what you guys have done.

Not to sound ungrateful, but If "my buddy said" please dont post it.I need concrete advice based on first hand fact.

Not tryin to sound like an Arse (maybe I do, I apologize) I just want to get my ride turning better .

I have been checking into the Upper A arms and long ball joint setups for sale. I plan on doing that,in the future, but I want to solve the steering thing first.

If everyone who has a gto experienced the same issue then it just makes sense that the box needs reworked and basically the stops need to be updated from what the factory used. This is what I am thinking,

What say Youse guys.?

[Murf]

Jesh, kinda harsh for someone wanting help. Anyway it's the steering box. Arms are same length as far as I know.
I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee box on mine. Works the treat. Cost $50 at a junkyard. You need 1 adapter for the pressure line. I think you'll like the results. Now lighten up, Francis.

Murf

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[LATECH]

Thanks Murf. Does the jeep box turn far enough to hit the travel stops on the A arms?

Also, did your s have the same shortcomings with the Factory Box?

[Murf]

I'm not sure, I'll take a look tomorrow.as far as the stock box it was power steering. Lots of turns lock to lock and over assisted.

What are you use to driving? I've been driving old junk so long it feels normal. If you're used to modern cars with R&P steering, these cars will feel very different to you.

I'll let you know on the amount the steering actually steers.

Murf

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[LATECH]

Well, I do drive newer stuff. BUT after driving the GTO and seeing the troubles and complaints about turning radius,and the fact I want to drive this daily, i decided to improve what I can, within fiscal reason.

Seeing that the steering knuckles dont quite hit the stops and the fact the turning radius sucks.....

I am thinking about the jeep box again,Plent around.And I can get the fittings easily to drop in the hose ports to run my existing hoses.

Do you agree that the steering radius is wider than one desires?

[Murf]

Well, I'm not sure about the turning radius being to big. It has never bothered me. I just drive normal no cone carving or anything like that. Where do you notice the radius being too large?

Was the large turning radius as noticeable with the manual steering?

I read somewhere that the 70 or 71 & later steering boxes actually had about 10 degrees less sweep but I haven't measured one in real life.

The box you got off the 71 could also have been changed. Back in the day a little of us put Trans Am boxes on our A bodies. Great feel but you lose turning radius.

Now for the "I feel stupid" part. What are you referring to as steering stops on the steering knuckle/ lower A arm?
I looked at mine & don't have a stop. I have stock drum brake spindles with LS disc brakes and stock lower control arms. Mine could go maybe 3/8 inch more before the caliper hit.

Murf

ETA, Just checking to make sure. Are you talking about how big the actual steering radius is or are you talking about how many turns it takes lock to lock?

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[LATECH]

Actual turning radius murf.

Seems like I need 40 acres to turn her around

I ordered a 98 Grand cherokee box from the local yard this morning.

Ordered the fittings to adapt the ports in the box to use my existing lines.

I have already changed the rag joint when I switched fromthe old manual box.

I dont recall how good the turning radius was with the Manual box. I just remember cranking the wheel for days to make a turn. Getting older,not liking to "work" my shoulders so hard......you know

What you said about the "sweep" of the pittman arm mounted to a 71 box kinda makes sense. I think that may be the problem.

I bought it off Evil bay. It was off of a 71 GTO. May not have been original to that car either as guy was selling it after he replaced his box.

The turning radius could change dramatically if the box I have has a sweep of only 78 degrees ( i found a chart that lists one of the mid seventies boxes with that degree of sweep at the pittman ) .
The chart showed that some of the other ones were 87 degrees of sweep.

The chart was from an article in Hotrod . It states the Grand cherokke box has an 87 degree sweep, so I may be on the right track here.

[64speed]

I used the box of an 86 Monte Carlo SS on my 64. Works great.

[LATECH]

SCORE . Box came this AM.

Nice and tight.No play.3 turns lock to lock.Off a 98 grand cherokee. Good and dry,looks like no leaks

Waiting on my flare fittings to drop in the ports to run my OE hoses

[JC455]

When you converted from manual to power, did you change to the power steering pitman arm? They are not the same as the manual steering piece.
If you did, there is a very real chance that someone changed the PS box from its original production box. Usually an F car box will result in the increased turning radius, and as mentioned, this was considered a reasonable upgrade back in the old days.

[LATECH]

The only difference I see is the diameter of the pittman shaft.

The length of a manual and a power steering pittman arm is 4.92 inches center to center of the holes

If the power steering pittman was longer or shorter it would alter the ackerman angle

Everything I see says the center to center lengths are the same.

Have you measured one against the other?

[Murf]

Hi, I think he means the diameter where it attaches to the box is different.

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[LATECH]

OK.

Ackerman (or toe out on turns ) would be altered significantly if the pitman or idler were of different lengths. And it would be different on either side.

[JC455]

"The only difference I see is the diameter of the pittman shaft.

The length of a manual and a power steering pittman arm is 4.92 inches center to center of the holes

If the power steering pittman was longer or shorter it would alter the ackerman angle

Everything I see says the center to center lengths are the same.

Have you measured one against the other?"
I did not measure one, I just know that there is a difference, so trying to help you by eliminating variables... it doesn't appear that the length would cause an issue, so this one is a non-factor.
That being said, I go back to the other part I stated, I imagine someone changed out the factory PS box on the donor car you took your first PS box from.
When I put a 2nd gen WS6 box on a 68 'Bird, the radius increased... but it sure was responsive between the stops!

[JC455]

I do look forward to hearing your impressions of the GC box- I hear a lot of good things about it, and I'd like to put one on my 64 Tempest.

[LATECH]

Yepper.I will post my results when she is done .That being said it could be a little while as it is still cold outdoors and I have no garage. First nice day though , (above 50 and sunny LOL) and it will be on so.......


I will post up then.
Thanks for the help fellas

[LATECH]

Weather is still lousy so nothing done with steering box yet, except painted it in the shop.

Replaced the ball joints in the new upper control arms with pro forged .5 in extra long shaft style joints.The joints that came in the control arms looked OK, just kinda cheap.

Got the hose fittings (flared inserts ) for the steering hoses too.

Just waiting for a nice day here in the snow belt.

[LATECH]

Finally , now that it is May 21, We have had a good day and I have had time to install my steering box and upper control arms with the .5 inch longer ball joints.

First , I have only driven a half mile from my buddies shop to the house.

BUT, and this is huge........when I went to park now.....


My street is narrow,like a street in Italy narrow. I pull up past my parking spot, put it in reverse and back in. With the old box I would have to stop half way in and pull back forward To get a better aim at my parking spot.
The steering radius has improved GREATLY. Tonight I pulled up, turned the wheel, dumped it in reverse and backed in PERFECTLY without have to see saw back and forth to get in. WOW, NICE

That being said , the half mile I did drive the car, it felt better and had a more road feel about it and its apparent that the caster built into the new upper control arms helped her keep her lane without effort or sailboating around.

What a difference. It is definitely worth the work.
Now, My previous steering box ,I Found, after much looking, checking etc had a pitman arm sweep of only 78 degrees. The new box has a sweep of 87 degrees. Now that doe'snt sound like much, but when it comes to maneuvering around a tight parking lot, (like the car show last week) it made all the difference. Like I said parking the car is easy now and I dont have to see saw into a space.

Now, on to the next big thing ......