[Sprocket]

Building a motor too late into the night, and so I go ahead and install the oil pump without the pump shaft. The pump came with a copper gasket. Instructions for the pump say DO NOT REUSE the copper gasket. Can I take the pump off, install the shaft, and REUSE the copper gasket? Is the threat of it not sealing and letting air into the system real? Am I just being silly? Thanks.

[azbirds]

Never heard of a copper gasket for the pump. If it seats perfectly in the exact same spot as initially seated I would think it would be ok. I've always used the paper ones. How thick is it?

[Sprocket]

"Am I the only one who gives a $#&! about the rules?!?!?!" Love your avatar. Anyway, I don't know the thickness. Will measure and get back.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Most copper gaskets have specific crush thickness. Once it had been “ crushed”, it may not seal correctly if used again. This is why I NEVER reuse gaskets....

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by azbirds

Never heard of a copper gasket for the pump. If it seats perfectly in the exact same spot as initially seated I would think it would be ok. I've always used the paper ones. How thick is it?

Agree, I use the basic paper gasket and it has worked fine for me for years.

There is a specific torque for the oil pump bolts and that torque spec was NOT designed for a copper gasket between the pump and the block.

If you can't get a Paper Gasket, use RTV, and then torque the bolts to the Pontiac spec.

A copper gasket in that location would make me very nervous as far as the oil pump bolts coming loose. Who is saying use a copper gasket in that location?

Tom V.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Zero threat of letting air into the System, even when sitting.

I use as thin a gasket, as strong a gasket, or no gasket (thin film of RTV) for pump to block. Wonder why my roll of copper tape has not been tried...lifetime supply of gaskets there.

Not keen on a thick paper gasket for oil mount in heat and vibration.

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Agree, I use the basic paper gasket and it has worked fine for me for years.

There is a specific torque for the oil pump bolts and that torque spec was NOT designed for a copper gasket between the pump and the block.

If you can't get a Paper Gasket, use RTV, and then torque the bolts to the Pontiac spec.

A copper gasket in that location would make me very nervous as far as the oil pump bolts coming loose. Who is saying use a copper gasket in that location?

Tom V.

Butler does. https://butlerperformance.com/c-1234...l-gaskets.html

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Zero threat of letting air into the System, even when sitting..

Leak would let oil squirt out....Not air in. That's at the block mounting.

Clay

[dataway]

Only possible reason I could think of for copper would be someone that is removing and reinstalling the pump a lot. The paper gaskets tend to come apart on removal since they are very, very thin. Perhaps Butler has found that leaks at that location are not a problem and copper can be reused multiple times.
I know the copper gaskets I have used on other applications have required simple annealing every time they are reused.

[GRX]

Yes. Annealing to eliminate effect of work hardening is the key.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

"Instructions for the pump say DO NOT REUSE the copper gasket."

For $5.95 plus the ride, why would you even consider not following instructions??

With that, your gasket set likely has the paper gasket, use that, 30# torque, and forget about it.

[Tom Vaught]

Too much screwing around (with that copper gasket), in my mind. Only reason I can see to use the copper gasket is if some of the oil pump driveshafts (attached to the one gear) were a touch long so the copper gasket would allow a bit more clearance for the intermediate shaft to not bind up. Paper gaskets for me.

Tom V.

[Sprocket]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Who is saying use a copper gasket in that location?

Tom V.

It came with the oil pump from Butler.

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Zero threat of letting air into the System, even when sitting.

That's the risk associated with reuse according to the instructions.

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

"Instructions for the pump say DO NOT REUSE the copper gasket."

For $5.95 plus the ride, why would you even consider not following instructions??

With that, your gasket set likely has the paper gasket, use that, 30# torque, and forget about it.

What I wasn't sure about is what constitutes "use"? Mere assembly or actual usage from engine heat cycles?

Yeah, I can certainly paper gasket the pump, which is what I have done in the past, but I wanted to use what was supplied with the pump. It's not worth the $15 or more it would likely cost me to have Butler send another copper gasket.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Sprocket

Is the threat of it not sealing and letting air into the system real?

Impossible! Oil pressure would be the highest where the pump bolts to the block.

Originally Posted by Sprocket

That's the risk associated with reuse according to the instructions..

Some buick and mopar engines come to mind here. Pick-up tube bolt on on some of these engines. That would be the suction side and could let air in.

Wrong as that part of the instructions is....I'd question the not being able to use the copper gasket.

Drain plugs with copper washers don't seem to have a problem.

Look at the copper gasket when you pull the pump. If it has an imprint that can't be replicated on the re-install....might consider doing something different.

Clay

[Old Goat Racer]

Instead of asking all these great minds, why not call MR. Butler ?
(866) 762-7527

[Dragncar]

I seen a guy once use a gasket there made out of a thick brown paper sack. The kind you get your groceries in. I would not do it, but the stockish engine is still running.
But I am not sure why reusing a very simple, thin copper gasket there would be any problem at all. pretty sure I reused mine the last time I freshend my 455. I have allen bolts in place of the factory ones. I use torque wrenches for things like head bolts, mains and rods but never have for oil pumps of even the cover on the oil pump after bluprinting. I know how much to tighten 5/16 and 3/8 bolts after doing so many. Positive some will say use the torque wrench on these but never had a issue.

[Sprocket]

Originally Posted by Old Goat Racer

Instead of asking all these great minds, why not call MR. Butler ?
(866) 762-7527

Because he doesn't answer the phone at 4:38 p.m. on a Sunday!!!

[Old Goat Racer]

He does at 9:09 AM on Tuesday.