[fiesta62]

Hi, I need to remove engine to replace damaged intermediate shaft and oil pump, I have a 400 and turbo 400 auto, I have been told mixed opinions about if I should remove just engine or engine and auto, some say remove both its more easy but I worry about damage trying to get the engine and box out in one go seems a scary task, but with bonnet off just lifting engine out seems like less chance of damage to car in the engine bay, but I am told getting the box and converter lined up again is really difficult, anyone got any opinions and ideas or tips on the best way please let me know, thanks

[Jeff Hamlin]

Get a load leveler for your lift and remove them together, you'll be glad you did.
Unless you have a lift. If you do take them out together be sure to cap or cover the tail shaft to prevent a mess.

You might consider drilling a small hole in each hinge/hood spring (1/8") before removing them. These holes can be used as a guide to be sure the hood is put back in the exact location by using the bit afterwards as a guide pin.
Saves time getting the gap alignment back in order. Just drill in a location not highly visible.

[gtospieg]

You can also separate the trans from the engine, remove the driveshaft and slide the trans rearward a couple inches....good luck

[fiesta62]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hamlin

Get a load leveler for your lift and remove them together, you'll be glad you did.
Unless you have a lift. If you do take them out together be sure to cap or cover the tail shaft to prevent a mess.

You might consider drilling a small hole in each hinge/hood spring (1/8") before removing them. These holes can be used as a guide to be sure the hood is put back in the exact location by using the bit afterwards as a guide pin.
Saves time getting the gap alignment back in order. Just drill in a location not highly visible.

I will get the load leveler, but my friend said I will loose some height as the leveler makes the overall chain length longer, so I have to actually lift higher to get over the front , this may not be a problem but I see his point
I will take bonnet off but was planning to leave hinges on, I just put a bit of tape around the plate that bolts to bonnet , the tape guides the position for refitting bonnet
but still not sure just engine or engine and box out...

[fiesta62]

Originally Posted by gtospieg

You can also separate the trans from the engine, remove the driveshaft and slide the trans rearward a couple inches....good luck

yes I guess but never done it before either way, I have been told getting box to line up again when putting engine back in is very difficult, problems with converter moving forward and not lining up, I am working on my garage floor, no hoist involved, it does seem like it would be difficult lying on floor trying to get the box bolted and lined up to the engine, at this point the few I have talked to say take both engine and box out, but that also seems difficult to clear everything without damage...

[fiesta62]

Originally Posted by gtospieg

You can also separate the trans from the engine, remove the driveshaft and slide the trans rearward a couple inches....good luck

I am now thinking just engine, my friend has done it before and said no need to remove tailshaft or move box back, he said just get box supported and move engine forward about 1 inch and then it is disconnected from the box and can be lifted out, so seems the way to go...

[66sprint6]

We removed and installed our engine by itself. We had to jiggle the motor around a bit to line it up before we finally attached it to the tranny. But it wasn't that hard. I'd say that it is 50/50 on whether you want to do it either way. I have helped friends install the motor and tranny together. The leveller is your friend. The first engine crane we used didn't lift the unit high enough, so we lost a day tracking down a better one.

[Greg Reid]

I actually typed a response to this earlier this morning...must've forgotten to hit 'post'. Anyway, about the same as 66spring6...I personally always leave the tranny in the car. Just my personal preference.
Just support the tranny with a jack until the engine is out. Afterwards, I support the tranny with a couple (or more) of coathangers secured to the top of the cowl. That way, I can push the car around with the tranny still mounted.
Never had any issues lining the bellhousing up with the bosses at the back of the block. You'll have to muscle it around a bit but when the splines are lined up, it'll practically fall into place. Just make sure the converter is pushed all the way in the bellhousing before you start and you don't have your fingers in there when that engine hits home!
I've always done this type of stuff alone and never had any issues.

[mcmurb]

I used a load leveler like above to remove/reinstall my engine last fall. Left TH400 in the car supported by floor jack. The only time i needed help was to remove the hood.

Used 1.5 ton hoist with the boom extended to .5 ton. plenty of clearance including the load leveler. Never seemed unstable.

[fiesta62]

hi, ok thanks all that info makes me feel confident to just do engine only, my friend has a tool/clamp to make sure converter stays in place so that's ok,

I was a bit concerned if I buy a load leveler will I still have enough height to lift engine out but as mcmurb said it was no problem, I will remove carb so chain can be close to manifold to get maximum height

only issue might be I may not be able to rotate engine to undo flex plate , the engine locked clockwise, the intermediate shaft slot is closed over at the end, and now it tilted sideways, something went wrong when we installed the new HEI, it all jammed up, so now today I will try and turn engine over by hand anticlockwise, if it don't turn then I guess it all has to come out.......thanks for the tips

[ftwmlp]

Originally Posted by fiesta62

hi, ok thanks all that info makes me feel confident to just do engine only, my friend has a tool/clamp to make sure converter stays in place so that's ok,

I was a bit concerned if I buy a load leveler will I still have enough height to lift engine out but as mcmurb said it was no problem, I will remove carb so chain can be close to manifold to get maximum height

only issue might be I may not be able to rotate engine to undo flex plate , the engine locked clockwise, the intermediate shaft slot is closed over at the end, and now it tilted sideways, something went wrong when we installed the new HEI, it all jammed up, so now today I will try and turn engine over by hand anticlockwise, if it don't turn then I guess it all has to come out.......thanks for the tips

These are a little pricey, but I used one to reinstall both engine and manual trans in my 66 GTO with the same concerns about headroom, gained just enough over the load leveler. Called Mac's Pivot.
http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/pr...T-and-Adapters

[muscle_collector]

couldnt begin to count how many ive done both ways. if you pull it together be very careful to watch front and back as ive seen many times guys damage their radiator support or the firewall / ac box. and dont forget about the extreme mess you can make when all the trans fluid starts pouring out the tailshaft. i personally will leave the trans in the car if it doesnt need to be rebuilt, cleaned or ???

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by fiesta62

only issue might be I may not be able to rotate engine to undo flex plate , the engine locked clockwise

Well, that's a horse of a different color there...In that case, probably easier to pull the tranny with it.

[fiesta62]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Well, that's a horse of a different color there...In that case, probably easier to pull the tranny with it.

all good I can rotate engine counter clockwise so I can just do engine and that's the plan now....

[fiesta62]

Originally Posted by ftwmlp

These are a little pricey, but I used one to reinstall both engine and manual trans in my 66 GTO with the same concerns about headroom, gained just enough over the load leveler. Called Mac's Pivot.
http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/pr...T-and-Adapters

that is a great looking tool I am tempted to buy it, but is it any better than a load leveler ?, they both do the same thing don't they ?

from what I have read its safe and strong enough fixed to manifold, but my manifold is a aluminium one so not as strong as steel, so I wonder is it better and safer to use a load leveler bolted to block etc? and much cheaper too !

is headroom the same close enough between the mac pivot and a load leveler ?......thanks

[ID67goat]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

couldnt begin to count how many ive done both ways. if you pull it together be very careful to watch front and back as ive seen many times guys damage their radiator support or the firewall / ac box. and dont forget about the extreme mess you can make when all the trans fluid starts pouring out the tailshaft. i personally will leave the trans in the car if it doesnt need to be rebuilt, cleaned or ???

Agree with this....On my 67 it is not possible to pull with tranny still on unless the core support is removed....tilting the whole thing causes contact with crossmember/firewall/core support. Best way for me is to drop transmission out then pull the engine.

[Sirrotica]

You save quite a bit of labor leaving the transmission in the car, plus as has been said no transmission fluid will need to be removed and likely deposited on your floor. I made my living turning wrenches for 45+ years, and I never pull the transmission, unless it needs attention too. By myself I can usually remove an engine in about an hour leaving the transmission in the car, add another half hour if you pull both as a unit.

Additional labor if you remove the transmission, cooler lines, speedometer cable, driveshaft, transmission mount, and possibly the crossmember, drain, and refill transmission fluid. The bellhousing bolts, and convertor bolts need removed no matter which avenue you decide to pursue.

Any mechanic that has ever worked flat rate will tell you (99 times out of 100) it's more efficient and quicker to leave the transmission with the car. In case your not familiar with flat rate it's how some mechanics are paid in reference to how quickly they are able to perform a certain operation while working on cars. Compared to a predetermined time for each operation performed. Basically, if you beat the time, your making more money, a form of piecework. As might be expected any way to cut the time required to perform an operation, is reflected in your paycheck.

Another plus is if your doing only engine work, you don't have to split the transmission and have it laying on the floor in the way while your working on the engine. My workspaces are usually floor space limited, and I really don't need a transmission taking up floor space, and giving me another thing to trip over.

I have done it many, many, times, both ways since I was 15 years old, and started messing with cars. The most efficient way is to leave the transmission in the car. BTW, the majority of engines I've removed were laying on my back doing it in a garage without a lift. Other than getting up and down off of the creeper, having a lift isn't a huge advantage when pulling an engine.

[ftwmlp]

Originally Posted by fiesta62

that is a great looking tool I am tempted to buy it, but is it any better than a load leveler ?, they both do the same thing don't they ?

from what I have read its safe and strong enough fixed to manifold, but my manifold is a aluminium one so not as strong as steel, so I wonder is it better and safer to use a load leveler bolted to block etc? and much cheaper too !

is headroom the same close enough between the mac pivot and a load leveler ?......thanks

Yes, they both do the same thing. In my mock-up before the actual install the Pivot was able to achieve a greater angle than the load leveler and added four to six inches of head room which was critical to my situation. Good point about the aluminum intake, mine is a stock cast manifold. My reaction would be the load leveler is inherently "safer" using bolts to the head, but maybe someone else has experience using the Pivot with an aluminum manifold.

[geeteeohguy]

Another vote to leave the trans in the car. Super easy to re-align and bolt back up. Just make sure you secure the torque converter to the trans with a strap or brace so it doesn't fall out and make a mess.

[fiesta62]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Another vote to leave the trans in the car. Super easy to re-align and bolt back up. Just make sure you secure the torque converter to the trans with a strap or brace so it doesn't fall out and make a mess.

hi geetee....yes my buddy made a little bracket that bolts to the box to hold converter in so got that covered,
he also suggested I take out the bolts holding the auto crossmember to the cars side rails, this way the auto is still supported by can move back a bit onto the tailshaft some more, maybe like half inch or so,
the HO manifolds are really close to the frame so engine wont move forward much, so needs to be lifted first, but if I can move auto back a bit it might make all the difference, anyway all good getting close to lifting it out
and I am just doing engine with the help of the 4 chain load leveler bolted to the heads......