[Squidward]

I had a little problem with the throttle bracket. I used to have a POS Mr Gasket bracket that I moded and made work with the qjet. But I bought an aluminum bracket that was adjustable, and it's all good now.

A little help, please, with the synch: what parameters do I match when I synch, and what menu headers are they under? Like if I Rev to 2k, and timing reads 28 degrees on the light, do I adjust a handheld parameter to also read 28? I have read the instructions numerous times, and am having a mental block.

[angelo]

Once you set your idle timing, all other timing changes are done with the handheld controller. If you use a timing light that shows degrees, you can use it only to confirm the timing is going in at the correct rpm. It will not be exact, the FiTech takes into account load and other factors between the timing positions you programmed, but it should be close to a linear line.

[convgto]

If your using Fitech timing control what did you set your base timing (distributor lock down timing) at and why. thanks

[angelo]

convgto, I don't remember if I set it to 10 degrees or 20, but I believe I picked 10 because it was the default and that would be a value that is close but less than the initial timing, as all of the other values go up from this base number. Setting to 10 as base, your initial can be anywhere from 10+. It was a long time ago, I do not recall exactly what the range is on my FiTech but that gives you the basic idea why you may want a specific base timing.

You can phase your distributor to a specific base timing, which in turn would dictate your base timing. You should phase your distributor to the base timing though rather than adjust your base timing to your distributor. Phasing the distributor is one task I have to check myself, luckily my car runs like a champ as-is.

[JLMounce]

My recommendation is to set your timing at 2000 rpm above what you want your bass timing to be. Every engine is different so you may need to experiment, but if you plot a linear advance curve from your idle advance to where you want full mechanical advance in at, you arrive at a pretty good number for what your bass timing should be.

Remember that with the way this system works, there's only 1 true point where the spark is going to equal mechanical advanced and that will be at WOT at 2000rpm. Everywhere else, the spark is going to be commanded at a point where the rotor is not directly below the terminal in the cap. You are asking the spark to jump this gap as a result. The further away your timing gets from the base setting, the further that spark is going to jump.

This distance will also be effected by the size of your cap and rotor. At some point depending on the strength and voltage available in your system, that spark is either going to jump to a different terminal, or you're going to lose the spark entirely. When this happens you get a misfire.

So as an example, if you want 36 degrees of timing in at 3000 rpm and want another 12 in cruise advance for a total of 48 degrees, you may not want to set your base timing directly at what you want to run at idle, lets say 10 degrees. In that scenario your rotor is 38 cam degrees before the terminal in the cap and you're asking the spark to jump that distance.

Now lets say you set you base timing at 20 degrees at 2000 rpm. At 3000 rpm you still command that 26 total + 12 for cruise but now your rotor is only 28 cam degrees before the terminal, a smaller gap to jump. Remember that gap can be created on both the advance and retard side of the terminal, so it's okay if the base timing isn't your idle timing.

You then have the VR drift function which accounts for any slack or movement in the engine that effects timing at the distributor (typically retard due to chain stretch etc.) This adds another point where the distributor timing and the ecu can sync back up.

This is a pretty basic explanation and there isn't a right or wrong answer here. Each car is going to be different in the timing that it wants and how much phasing it can handle based on the parts installed.

[FrankieT/A]

You first have to have an adjustable rotor and you advance that 10 degrees. Then start the car and set your base timing (distributor) at 10 or 12. Then at the handheld you put it in dashboard mode and scroll til you can see spark. While watching the handheld raise the RPM to about 2000 RPM and whatever the spark reads you set the distributor to that amount advance and lock down the distributor. Then go into the handheld, navigate to "Distributor base timing" and set that to what you want your timing at idle to be. Hope this helps...

[angelo]

I actually went a step further and set my initial and all of the other timing options (timing, WOT and Boost at 1100, 3000 and 6000) to 16 degrees (last mark on the timing cover for convenience). It is a pain but going into the FiTech and setting all of the timing curve to the same degrees stops the timing itself from jumping around based on vacuum and rpm. When I revved the engine up to 2,000 - 2,500 and was still reading the same 16 degrees I was satisfied that the timing was correct. Once my timing was set I then went back and set the degrees I wanted for the various rpms and vacuum in the handheld controller.

FiTech recommends setting the base timing to what you want your idle to be at, which for a normal engine sounds ok. If your engine has a lot of advance at idle, say 28 degrees, you may want to put your base timing below or at 20, otherwise this may impact the timing at cranking enough to make it hard to start. When I had the MSD 6AL2 programmable handling my timing, I had the zero to 500 RPM range set at 16 degrees so it made it easy to start the engine, then I had the initial timing from 550-900 rpm at 22 degrees to give me a little more neck snapping when i hit the gas. I just looked this up on FiTech's documentation, apparently as soon as and slightly after the reluctor lines up with the sensor during starting the timing is sparked, so if you phase your distributor I am going to guess that this is not going to be an issue with the FiTech (like it was with the MSD 6AL2). Above cranking the base timing is the lowest advance setting allowed though. I am now curious to know how the MSD determines if the engine is cranking or running, I suspect it is by RPM.

By the way there is an adjustable rotor from MSD for phasing the distributor, MSD 84211, on Amazon http://amzn.to/2vwhhVf (also at Jegs and Summit Racing).

[convgto]

Thanks angelo, FrankieT/A and JL,
Fired right up, had to bring idle up a little was about 500 to 750 rpm. We then took it up to 2k rpm, moved the distributor to match timing on handheld controller, then phased the rotor. We still got to set other settings up and the AIC, its staying around zero to 3. FYI, to those building a car from scratch, it does take a lot more time with set up, we didn't have a broke in motor or any wires ran, we broke it in with the 2 barrel carb and the distributor that was in the car when I bought it, we just I guess you can say hot wired it. We probably could have of already had the interior done by now. I told my son, father son project, I think the fitech will be worth it in the long run.

[angelo]

I think the techy factor alone is worth it. The cool thing is you can disconnect and glove box the FiTech controller once your happy with everything and pull it out when at the track to tweak things without popping the hood. No more pumping the gas pedal, worries about vapor lock, choke in colder weather, and the engine runs perfect temperatures all the time too.

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by angelo

I actually went a step further and set my initial and all of the other timing options (timing, WOT and Boost at 1100, 3000 and 6000) to 16 degrees (last mark on the timing cover for convenience). It is a pain but going into the FiTech and setting all of the timing curve to the same degrees stops the timing itself from jumping around based on vacuum and rpm. When I revved the engine up to 2,000 - 2,500 and was still reading the same 16 degrees I was satisfied that the timing was correct. Once my timing was set I then went back and set the degrees I wanted for the various rpms and vacuum in the handheld controller.

This I like. Very simple, effective.

[hectore3]

I've read through most of this 50 page plus thread. Looking at converting to fuel injection over the fall/winter for two vehicles. My question is the reliability of the FiTech throttle body ECU being exposed to engine bay heat over the longer term. This versus the much more expensive Holley Terminator style EFI with the ECU divorced from the main body installed within the car's cabin. Thank you in advance/

[JLMounce]

I have had my FiTech installed an in use for over 2 years and many thousands of miles. 80% of that time it has been directly bolted to an aluminum intake manifold. The throttle body has fuel constantly running through it that cools it off. I haven't had a single issue with the electronics (or hardware for that matter).

If it is a concern for you, simply add a phenolic spacer between the throttle body and the intake manifold.

[hectore3]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[angelo]

hectore3,

Be careful how you route the wiring over the engine. I had the main harness from the FiTech with the 2 blade fuses routed around the passenger side of the intake, this worked great as it laid over top of the hose that runs around the throttle body for the PCV. At one point though the harness shook its way further from the throttle body and one of the blade fuses touched the intake manifold right at the heat crossover near the passenger side head. Needless to say the fuse holder melted a bit. I now have brackets holding the wiring up off of the manifold.

I have put over 1,000 miles on the FiTech with no issues except for my stupidity (see last paragraph).

If you are using the FiTech fuel command center, when you start your car after it has been sitting for 30+ minutes, do not forget to put the key in ignition mode but wait a couple seconds for the fuel center to build up pressure before turning over the starter.

[Overkillphil]

From what I've experienced, none of these EFI systems have the crisp throttle response of a properly tuned Qjet which is a big annoyance to me. The most recent is a late model Challenger with an annoying split second delay in throttle input. Apparently the TPS and electronics still have their limitations.

[angelo]

Overkillphil,

I agree with a properly tuned Quadrajet you will not see any noticeable improvement on acceleration, at least I did not in my case. I have noticed though that the AFR and engine coolant temperatures are now consistent throughout the RPM range and at idle, the electric choke is no longer necessary as well.

I know what you're talking about even with cars you buy today there is a slight delay when you hit the pedal. I do not observe a delay with FiTech though. I think the way they route the fuel with their unique design, the fuel is there ready to be sucked into the engine like a carb, the injectors simply need to follow up once you open the throttle. Watch a video how it works, google "FiTech ATOMIZATION". I think (and I could be wrong) this is what is making the difference.

[krisr]

Late model DBW cars are deliberately setup so that you need more pedal angle to get the throttle to open further, it's not a 1:1 relationship, as if you set it up that way, you have an uncontrollable vehicle - many years ago when I had my CV8Z Monaro (think 2004 Pontiac GTO), I spent months tuning it so it was perfect in any condition and left it in open loop as that is what the car liked the most. Once I got into the Electronic Throttle table, for a test I recalibrated it with a 1:1 curve (pedal:throttle body) and the car was an absolute nightmare to drive as it was cracking the throttle body open way to far and fast. The factory puts in an exponential APP:TB curve for a reason.

If you're talking about throttle response of cable driven throttle bodies however, my multiport cheap and cheerful Megasquirt system would have much better throttle response than any carb in any condition (cold, hot, elevated, etc...). I know so because when I tune cars I spend a significant amount of time (like 60% of my time) getting it to start properly and taper off to idle, getting idle right, getting tip in right, getting sharp accel right, getting decel right in all areas and all temperatures [coolant and air]. It's not really any different or requires any special voodoo magic than when setting up a carb, just spend the time to get it right and it'll pay off, except with EFI the results are repeatable every time and you'll have clean hands aftewards ... I've not touched one of them fancy pants new "self learning" things, so can't comment there, but I can't see them working as good as a true MPFI system that is very accurately dialled in.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by angelo

Overkillphil,

I agree with a properly tuned Quadrajet you will not see any noticeable improvement on acceleration, at least I did not in my case. I have noticed though that the AFR and engine coolant temperatures are now consistent throughout the RPM range and at idle, the electric choke is no longer necessary as well.

I know what you're talking about even with cars you buy today there is a slight delay when you hit the pedal. I do not observe a delay with FiTech though. I think the way they route the fuel with their unique design, the fuel is there ready to be sucked into the engine like a carb, the injectors simply need to follow up once you open the throttle. Watch a video how it works, google "FiTech ATOMIZATION". I think (and I could be wrong) this is what is making the difference.

Don't forget all the newer factory FI systems are fly by wire...And that just by it's nature has a lot to do with it.

[Marv]

Originally Posted by hectore3

I've read through most of this 50 page plus thread. Looking at converting to fuel injection over the fall/winter for two vehicles. My question is the reliability of the FiTech throttle body ECU being exposed to engine bay heat over the longer term. This versus the much more expensive Holley Terminator style EFI with the ECU divorced from the main body installed within the car's cabin. Thank you in advance/

You can wrap the wiring in plastic conduit or even heat-resistant sleeves available from Summit and Jegs. Plenty of options to wrap wiring up to insulate it from both heat and signal interference

[HWYSTR455]

I will be doing drive by wire with the new Dominator setup, using an LS7/9 SS/vette throttle body. Fingers crossed, but have heard the delay is almost non-existent in those. And there is an input correction factor you can adjust.

When you have more power, there's a less perceived delay as well.

.