[Tom Vaught]

I did 1966 Olds 442 Ram Air Scoops (on my 64 GTO) and collected a massive amount of road trash, rocks, nails, nuts, sticks, paper, etc so if you truly plan on driving the thing on the street I would look into a basic screen to catch the majority of the trash before it gets to your turbos.

Tom V.

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Maybe you should talk to John Marcella about why those 414 cfm heads pulled 1000 more rpm than someone else's 408 cfm heads will on a 566.

Stan

I shift my new 540 at 8200.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I did 1966 Olds 442 Ram Air Scoops (on my 64 GTO) and collected a massive amount of road trash, rocks, nails, nuts, sticks, paper, etc so if you truly plan on driving the thing on the street I would look into a basic screen to catch the majority of the trash before it gets to your turbos.

Tom V.

Yeah, the grill screens haven't been installed yet. On the street, I'd also put filters on. With the power the engine should make N/A, boost is not needed in most cases on the street.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

That 6.0 tag is an accomplishment by itself. Not easy to obtain first time through tech. Congratulations on that step. Not to mention the coolest engine package ever. Getting close.

All the credit for passing the cert first time through goes to Mike Hall, of Hall's Custom, he does amazing work.

[RAIV-Z]

[JSPONT]

Hot damn getting close. It looks awesome!!!!!!

[AllRise]

Good God almighty. I've never been so jealous of, and proud, and excited for another person in my life. Congratulations!! Please post lots of video of this thing? I am going to be living vicariously through you for a while...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[smokey 1978]

My that car is bad azz! Hey Ed are you going to design shirts with your car on them? if so put me down for 5 shirts!!!

[scott70]

I'm assuming you'll be running that at NED. Think youll be on the track this year? I wouldn't mind skipping to NH to see it.I was just at the nationals there which was a good show.

[Curious George]

Absolutely amazing! Very excited to see it perform.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by smokey 1978

My that car is bad azz! Hey Ed are you going to design shirts with your car on them? if so put me down for 5 shirts!!!

Haha, yes that's the plan although the shirts with the Raven haven't been designed yet we need to finalize what we're going to do with the grills. If any of you guys have already worked with a really good graphics shop, let me know.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by scott70

I'm assuming you'll be running that at NED. Think youll be on the track this year? I wouldn't mind skipping to NH to see it.I was just at the nationals there which was a good show.

New England Dragway will be the home track, I'm only about 30min south. The plan is to get some runtime on the Raven this year.

[RAIV-Z]

I'm looking to run the cable driven fuel pump off of the cam gear, anyone already make a mandrel that could be used?

[RAIV-Z]

Pics with the nose off.

[Scott Stoneburg]

Where's the radiator gonna sit?

[Jim Robertson]

That is one super sweet ride. Was able to go see the car at Hall's last month and the car looks better in person...if one could imagine that is possible. This will be one to watch. Ed's persistence has paid off...what an awesome machine. Now...get that hot rod running already!!!

[Tom Vaught]

See something that I don't really care for in the discharge air plumbing fabrication.
1) You have the by-pass valve at 90 degrees to the flow path (between the Turbo Discharge Tube and the connecting to the firewall going to the inter-cooler).

You have enough room to easily tip those feed tubes to the by-pass valves 45 degrees to the rear and then when the throttle is closed the discharge air from the turbos
would immediate exit the pipe (like an off ramp on a freeway) vs "oscillate" back and forth between the turbos and the inter-cooler tank.
Ever try to do a 90 degree with a vehicle at 100 mph? About the same deal with air passing thru the intake system at 300+ Feet per Second and the throttle blade slams shut,
and you want the by-pass air to make a sharp 90 degree turn.

So instead of giving the turbo discharge air an easy path of escape out of the pipe you have the air bouncing off the closed throttle plate pressurizing the intercooler tank
with pressure spikes while the turbo lose their speed. Good way to fail the inter-cooler tank when a simple air flow direction change could easily cure the potential problem.
I realize that you installed your by-pass valves like the picture in this Turbonetics link but the picture is not totally correct.
It just shows the basic position of the parts.
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/perfor...ructions_0.pdf

A "Off-Ramp" entry into the valve works a lot better vs a 90 degree turn.

Tom V.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

See something that I don't really care for in the discharge air plumbing fabrication.

1) You have the by-pass valve at 90 degrees to the flow path (between the Turbo Discharge Tube and the connecting to the firewall going to the inter-cooler).

You have enough room to easily tip those feed tubes to the by-pass valves 45 degrees to the rear and then when the throttle is closed the discharge air from the turbos
would immediate exit the pipe (like an off ramp on a freeway) vs "oscillate" back and forth between the turbos and the inter-cooler tank.
Ever try to do a 90 degree with a vehicle at 100 mph? About the same deal with air passing thru the intake system at 300+ Feet per Second and the throttle blade slams shut,
and you want the by-pass air to make a sharp 90 degree turn.

So instead of giving the turbo discharge air an easy path of escape out of the pipe you have the air bouncing off the closed throttle plate pressurizing the intercooler tank
with pressure spikes while the turbo lose their speed. Good way to fail the inter-cooler tank when a simple air flow direction change could easily cure the potential problem.
I realize that you installed your by-pass valves like the picture in this Turbonetics link but the picture is not totally correct.
It just shows the basic position of the parts.
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/perfor...ructions_0.pdf

A "Off-Ramp" entry into the valve works a lot better vs a 90 degree turn.

Tom V.

Thanks Tom, I appreciate the feedback.

Yes the “Blow of Valves” are 90 degrees to the flow path. I’m not sure putting them at a 45 degree or shallower angle to the flow path will make much difference due to their proximity
to the throttle blade as there still would be quite a bit of pressurized pipe inside the car. I can’t see how changing the angle is going to decrease the initial shockwave hitting the throttle blade
or intercooler due to all the air which has already passed the blow of valves and the delay of the blow off valves opening. My thinking is that if the throttle blade can handle the initial shock wave, then subsequent waves
will be somewhat irrelevant. I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

Will changing the angle affect the initial pressure wave?
Will changing the angle affect subsequent pressure waves enough to make a difference?

On a side note, I’ve seen many high horse power boosted engines with a similar setup, in some cases with smaller BOV’s.
Without clear instructions or enough real-world experience we look to the guys that are running fast without knowing why they built it that way.

Turbocharging engines is not a new concept, it would be great if companies like Turbonetic’s and other would properly update their product documentation to include best practices and be very clear on the pros
and cons of product placement as there are quite a few opinions on where BOV’s should be placed regardless of installation angle.

Thanks,

Ed Page

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

Ls1 style coils?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

Thanks Tom, I appreciate the feedback.

Yes the “Blow of Valves” are 90 degrees to the flow path. I’m not sure putting them at a 45 degree or shallower angle to the flow path will make much difference due to their proximity
to the throttle blade as there still would be quite a bit of pressurized pipe inside the car. I can’t see how changing the angle is going to decrease the initial shockwave hitting the throttle blade or intercooler due to all the air which has already passed the blow of valves and the delay of the blow off valves opening. My thinking is that if the throttle blade can handle the initial shock wave, then subsequent waves will be somewhat irrelevant. I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

Will use caps to reply with, not yelling.

IF I AM LOOKING AT YOUR DEAL CORRECTLY, YOU ARE GOING FROM TURBOS, PAST THE BLOW-OFF VALVES, THRU FIREWALL, INTO THE WATER TO AIR INTERCOOLER, OUT OF THE INTER-COOLER INTO THE THROTTLE BODY, AND FINALLY INTO THE INTAKE PLENUM.

SO WHEN THE THROTTLE BLADE SLAMS SHUT, THE TURBO WILL BE FEEDING ALL OF THE PLUMBING WITH A LOT OF MASS FLOW. IT WILL SLAM INTO THE THROTTLE (CLOSED AND TRY TO REVERSE DIRECTION.

THE TURBO WOULD STILL BE TRYING TO FEED THE INTER-COOLER BUT YOU HAVE A LOT OF BY-PASS AREA SO IF THE BY-PASS VALVES CAN BLEED THAT FUTURE AIR FLOW QUICKLY OUT OF THE PLUMBING THEN THE INTER-COOLER WILL SEE ONE PRESSURE SPIKE AND THEN TRY TO BLEED THE TRAPPED AIR ALSO PAST THE BY-PASS VALVES.

SO YOU HAVE REMOVED THE SOURCE OF THE HIGH PRESSURE (THE TURBOS) QUICKLY FROM THE EQUATION.

IF YOU JUST HAVE THE AIR FLOWING PAST THE BY-PASS VALVES THEN THEY WILL HAVE LITTLE EFFECT ON RELEASING THE AIR QUICKLY BECAUSE THE INTER-COOLER AND THE TURBOS WILL BE PLAYING "BACK AND FORTH WITH THE AIR IN THE SYSTEM.

SO THE DEAL IS GET RID OF THE SOURCE OF THE PRESSURIZED AIR AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. WITH THE BY-PASSES CLOSE TO THE TURBOS THAT MEANS THE TURBOS CAN BLEED AIR FEOM THEM TO ATMOSPHERE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE THROTTLE BLADE CLOSES AND THE BY-PASS VALVES OPEN.

Will changing the angle affect the initial pressure wave?
Will changing the angle affect subsequent pressure waves enough to make a difference?

YOU HAVE GOT IT WITH THIS STATEMENT ABOVE. WE CAN'T DO MUCH WITH THE FIRST PRESSURE SPIKE BUT WE CAN REMOVE A LOT OF THE SUBSEQUENT PRESSURE WAVES.

On a side note, I’ve seen many high horse power boosted engines with a similar setup, in some cases with smaller BOV’s.
Without clear instructions or enough real-world experience we look to the guys that are running fast without knowing why they built it that way.

IF YOU HAD A BELT SUPERCHARGER LIKE PONTIAC DUDE USED TO HAVE AND THE BY-PASS VALVES WERE PLUMBED WRONG FOR QUICK AIR RELEASE THEN YOU ARE PICKING THE SUPERCHARGER BELT UP OFF THE TRACK AFTER THE SUPERCHARGER AND THE ENGINE COULD NOT AGREE ON THE SPEED. HAPPENED TO HIM MANY TIMES.

IN YOUR CASE AND OTHERS THE PEOPLE LIKE WELTER BLOW THE BOOST PIPE CONNECTION OFF THE TURBO AT THE INTAKE MANIFOLD.


Turbocharging engines is not a new concept, it would be great if companies like Turbonetic’s and other would properly update their product documentation to include best practices and be very clear on the pros and cons of product placement as there are quite a few opinions on where BOV’s should be placed regardless of installation angle.

USUALLY THE DOCUMENTATION IS GENERIC BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT TURBO INSTALLATIONS/CONFIGURATIONS. BUT YOU ALWAYS TRY TO PUT THE BY-PASS VALVES RIGHT AFTER A BEND STARTS SO THAT THE AIR HAS A DIRECT "LINE OF SIGHT"
RIGHT AT THE VALVE PORT WHEN THE VALVE IS OPEN. HOPE THAT HELPS.

YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE PARTS FROM DAMAGE (THINK INTER-COOLER AND PLUMBING IN THE CAR NEXT TO THE DRIVER). I HAVE SEE THE WALLS OF THE INTER-COOLER BLOWN OUT RIGHT NEXT TO THE DRIVER DUE TO OVER-PRESSURIZATION AND FATIGUE FROM PRESSURE WAVES.

Thanks,

Ed Page

TOM V.