[AllRise]

Say a fella had an old 73 firebird in the garage he'd been racing for a minute or two, and wanted to do something with it to make the old girl get his blood rushing again. Let's say he has a budget set aside specifically for racing and wanted to make his dollar count. That, in consideration, gentlemen, what might a guy have to do to be competitive in x275 or the pro275 category?

For arguments sake, let's say the firebird is basically stock. Let's get down to the nitty gritty of planning the project. Is it possible to use a factory cast block? Is the leaf spring suspension (upgraded of course) going to do the trick?
What kind of HP/TQ would you need to be competitive, and how would you go about it?

Obviously there is a lot of things to consider here. This is a hypothetical, and while I don't expect a complete plan from start to finish, I'm trying to stay a feel for what it would take a veteran bracket racer to actually be able to put together a program that might be competitive, and if it is possible to do it in his or her own back yard, so to speak. Anything you are willing to contribute is welcome, as long as it is constructive, and not just being a naysayer. Plenty of other places for that.

That said, bring it on! And thank you all in advance!


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[LiL Jack]

$100,000 is a good start

[66_Catalina]

Unfortunately Jack probably isn't too far off if you want to be competitive. I help wrench (grunt work like pulling trans and engine) on a local guy's 1/8 mile car that gets in the high 4's and he's easily 80k + into it. The 275 cars can be really fast.

[Hooter]

My vote is buy a roller or turn key car. Less money and headaches. Been there done that.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Do you intend to win, or just finish, or just run awhile?

[johnta1]

If you're doing a class type racing, you need the rules 1st to see what is allowed then add to it.
(like back-half allowed or tube chassis,etc)

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by johnta1

If you're doing a class type racing, you need the rules 1st to see what is allowed then add to it.
(like back-half allowed or tube chassis,etc)

Most people that pay attention to racing know the rules and if you don't know the classes he is talking about why respond to him?

[AllRise]

Think of this more as an exercise in mind of going through what it actually takes to be competitive with our old pontiacs. Of course winning is a goal, but just being able to place, or get in the show is the important part. I am asking to learn more about the things involved with this type of class racing, more than I am going to be able to build anything close to what is required anytime soon, or without sponsorship. I know enough to be dangerous to myself and others, and have learned a lot by reading everything I can get my hands on, lurking here at PY, and hanging out on yellowbullet. Definitely don't feel like asking over there and just being berated for being a newb, and while I still run that risk here, you guys are all Pontiac knowledge specific. And that is really where my heart lies.


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[Scott Stoneburg]

I would say definitely an aftermarket block. Jack is probably right 100K if not more. Consider all that needs to be done to the car, not just the engine. Transmission is not just a typical race th400. The roll cage and chassis work involved. It's alot.

[cosgrove]

You want to be competitive. You want to make every dollar count. You want to use a Pontiac engine. No problem with any of this criteria.
Jack is right. It will take a lot of those dollars. There is not to much on that stock '73 that you would keep on the car. Those things are heavy. You will have to reduce the weight by hundreds of pounds. If you are over 3000 lbs with driver, you will be at a disadvantage. 2800 would be better yet, and it won't be cheap to get it there. Most classes have rules that will determine what your weight goal will be.
You will need all the safety equipment to make the car legal to 7.50.
You will need an after market block. You will need 1200+ hp. There are competitive NA Pontics in these classes. These are amazing engines and the guys who build and race them have put incredible effort into getting them to this point. Power adder is the way to go unless you have extra deep pockets and have access to their experience and knowledge. With power adder we have plenty of power available and rely on power management to a greater extent. Also, we can run over 1000 less RPM which gives us more passes between tear downs. Most classes do give NA a weight break.
The leaf spring suspension (upgraded of course) has been proven to be competitive in these classes but everything has to fall into place to make it work.. The small tires set these classes apart but they make suspension tuning and power management a huge challenge.

[AllRise]

Well, gentlemen, that about covers it. Excellent answer, Cosgrove, and it also explains why there are so many damned Fox bodied mustangs. What's more, it has taught me to ask more pointed questions to get more in depth. Thank you all for helping, I knew it was a lot, but wanted a clearer picture. I would love to participate in this level of racing, but have no idea what I could do to get there. Ill just stick to the weekend barn burners here at home for now. Haha!


*edited for grammar

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[Jeff Kinsler]

Like jack said a 100K easy and a good chassis builder to start. X275 cars running up front are in the 4.30 to 4.40 range. NA Pontiac in X 275 will not be competitive at all. You can run a nitrous motor up to 588 cubes with one stage of nitrous in X275. No turbos on Pontiac engines. There is a rule change in the works to let a pontiac engine up to 540 with a F-2 or smaller blower at 3300 lbs in X 275. Not finalized as of yet but will be soon. Pro 275 is a 4.0 to 4. 20 class to be competitive or win. Turbo would be the way to go for pro 275. Read the rules for the class you want to build and go for it. We need more Pontiacs in heads up racing. Good luck

[Steve C.]

"...and it also explains why there are so many damned Fox bodied mustangs."

We are not in the same league with the X275/Pro275 fellows but your statement above reflects one reason why our Pontiac engine went into John's Ford Fairmont. Every part that bolts onto a fox body mustang will go onto a Fairmont. And it has a slightly longer wheel base.


5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 car, stock type suspension.


.

[LiL Jack]

AllRise, do they have a Ultra Street type style class close to you.

Maybe 80k to get into that class.

[John Langer]

100k won't even get you past second round.

[johnta1]

Read the rules for the class you want to build and go for it.

Most people that pay attention to racing know the rules and if you don't know the classes he is talking about why respond to him?

[AllRise]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

We need more Pontiacs in heads up racing.

Thank you. This is exactly why I am asking. I love heads up racing, and I am looking for real world experience with these classes to find out what it takes financially, as well as what kind of commitment to time invested is necessary to be competitive enough to win.
Heads up racing is its own beast, and a beast I have no other experience with other than as a spectator.


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