[PDC]

Street driven weekend cruise nite car. FT cam. Brad Penn 10/40. Any time the car gets started, I drive it for at least 30-45 minutes to get everything up to full operating temp under load to limit the amount of condensation accumulation from short warm-up cycles. I probably put under 2000 miles a year on the car about 50-100 miles at a time. Question - should the oil be changed every year regardless of miles of operation? Seems like motor oil should 'keep' in the crank case as long as it would 'keep' in the bottles on my shelf. Not worried about the cost, just wondering if I'm dumping perfectly good oil.

[David Jones]

I'd change it.
Probably a minimum of once a year.
There are no written rules on this kinda stuff.....everybody's hobby car use/experience/opinion is different. I run a "hybrid" cam/lifters, drive it about 3-4000 miles a year and change the full synthetic Mobil1 twice a year. Wasting oil life?
Yes, no doubt.
I don't care.

[1968GTO421]

^ X2.
I change mine 2X per year regardless of mileage. Humidity is always present as condensation regardless of "driving it off", it forms again and reacts with the small amounts of blowby that get past the rings forming acids and other uglies, bad for bearings, cam lobes, etc.
I'd rather "waste" a little oil for my oil recycler, than take a chance on hurting my engine.

[PDC]

Both of these replies are in line with my own hunch. I'm off to change my oil!

[78w72]

you are correct that oil will "keep" in the pan just fine... but if you are putting 2000 miles on it i would definitely change it each year at the end of the season. with that many miles it has byproducts of combustion in it enough to warrant a change. if it were say 500 miles then i would leave it for the winter & drive the next season no problem.

thats good you drive long enough to warm it up & burn off condensation etc, lots of guys think startiing the car for 5-15 minutes in the driveway is good for the engine over winter storage, it is not. just builds up condensation & running at idle is the worst thing for any engine, especially in the cold weather.

i do my oil changes at the end of the season for 2 reasons. 1, to get all the contaminated oil out while it sits for 3-6 months in storage, used oil with acids in it is not good for bearings etc. & 2, so when the spring comes its ready to start up & drive for the year. if you use a quality filter & the engine is past its new break in stage, then the filter can easily go 2 change intervals.

IMO, at 2000 miles you are not dumping perfectly good oil, yes it has another ~1000 miles of life in it but a little too dirty for long storage.. especially if you arent worried about the cost.

but 2x a year regardless of miles is a little extreme & a waste IMO... if you have say 50-250 miles on fresh oil, condensation that is burned off has zero negative effects on the oil or the engine... & there are additives in the oil to neutralize acids or other contaminates. 2x a year with very low miles is a waste for a street car.

[PDC]

Why is it that your car always sounds better immediately after an oil change?

[moontower69]

Originally Posted by PDC

Why is it that your car always sounds better immediately after an oil change?

My theory is that perhaps the ring seal is better with pristine oil plus motor runs with less mechanical noise?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by PDC

Not worried about the cost

Stop guessing. Send off an oil sample to a testing lab.

Maybe $20. Worthwhile investment to see what the lab can tell you about condensation, wear particles, viscosity change, etc.

It tells you as much about your engine condition and the engine tune as it does about the oil. STRONGLY recommended. I've been sending occasional oil samples on my vehicles for twenty years. My Trailblazer gets a filter at ~13K, and an actual change at ~26K. Oil samples show the oil is fit for further use.

Of course, feedback fuel injection, overdrive transmission, and considerable highway mileage are very different operating conditions from a hot-rod carbed application used as a toy.

[SMW]

I have put a lot of information about oil on this site. To be safe, change it about every 6,000 miles. I have a new Charger and the owner's manual says to not go over 10,000 miles.

[Sirrotica]

The only feasible reason to change oil frequently is if it's thinned out from from fuel contamination, there is no way to salvage oil that has been contaminated with fuel to the point it changes the viscosity.

Other than that a by pass oil filter will let you change oil safely at 25,000-30,000 miles 4-5 years between oil changes. I run mine longer than 25,000 miles, my turbo diesel 6.5 engine has had the oil changed once at 6 years, at 25,000 miles, just because of a oil cooler line leaked almost all the oil on the ground, so no choice in the matter. The truck is 23 years old with 255,000 miles on it, and it is in good shape mechanically.

Now if your only using the factory issue filter (which is nothing more than a glorified strainer) you better keep changing it frequently because it keeps getting dirtier simply because the filter is so inefficient it leaves so much particulate in the oil and each time the dirty oil is pumped through the engine it continually wears all the internally oiled surfaces, the wear particulate just keeps on adding to the problem of dirty oil re-circulating constantly.

The longer the dirty oil is left in, the more wear happens inside of the engine due to the particulate that the factory filter can't physically remove due to the large pores in the media (40 microns in a stock filter, vs 1 micron in a by pass filter, 40 times more efficient).

Summing it up, changing efficient by pass filters and leaving the clean oil in the engine pays dividends by saving oil, and minimizing engine wear. Win, win situation.

Educate yourself about by pass oil filters and the huge advantages they offer over the inefficient factory design filters. Sampling the oil is also a great idea to get a scientific confirmation of the oil and the engines condition.

https://allsynoil.com/review-remote-...-Benefits.html
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ass-filtration

Or just keep doing what your doing, causing wear in your engine due to poor filtration. Plus changing oil that has many times more life in it just because it's filtered so poorly by the factory designed filter.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by PDC

Why is it that your car always sounds better immediately after an oil change?

I'm going to guess the power of suggestion: just like how your car always feels faster after you've washed it.

[propuckstopper]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Stop guessing. Send off an oil sample to a testing lab.

Maybe $20. Worthwhile investment to see what the lab can tell you about condensation, wear particles, viscosity change, etc.

It tells you as much about your engine condition and the engine tune as it does about the oil. STRONGLY recommended. I've been sending occasional oil samples on my vehicles for twenty years. My Trailblazer gets a filter at ~13K, and an actual change at ~26K. Oil samples show the oil is fit for further use.

Of course, feedback fuel injection, overdrive transmission, and considerable highway mileage are very different operating conditions from a hot-rod carbed application used as a toy.

This is the advice that everyone needs to listen to.

There is nothing more logical than Schurkey's commentary. I do exactly the same thing, and the process works to perfection.

My daily driver/winter beater is my 2003 Honda Element. I have owned this thing since 2005. Last year, it began acting up. I suspected a head gasket, so I immediately sent the oil out for a UOA (Used Oil Analysis). I did not tell the company I sent the used oil to about my suspicions of a head gasket issue. I wanted to see what they came up with, without any advice or bias from me.

The UOA report came back a few days later. Sure as hell, the oil was full of coolant.

I pulled the cylinder head off immediately, had it reconditioned, and installed a new head gasket. I also did a timing chain tensioner, and some other odds and ends including the water pump.

One year later, with 226,000 miles (not km) on the clock, this Element promises to be my trusted winter/daily beater for many more years. It literally runs like the day it was new.

Had I kept driving it, without doing a Used Oil Analysis, I surely would have destroyed the engine.

It is funny that I found this thread this evening, because I just changed the oil on my '65 this afternoon and pulled a sample. I don't suspect a thing is wrong. I just want to get a "look". I will mail this sample in the morning. If it comes back OK (which I suspect it will), I will do a UOA every three years or so just to be sure.

Just my experience...

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Stop guessing. Send off an oil sample to a testing lab.

Maybe $20. Worthwhile investment to see what the lab can tell you about condensation, wear particles, viscosity change, etc.

It tells you as much about your engine condition and the engine tune as it does about the oil. STRONGLY recommended. I've been sending occasional oil samples on my vehicles for twenty years. My Trailblazer gets a filter at ~13K, and an actual change at ~26K. Oil samples show the oil is fit for further use.

Of course, feedback fuel injection, overdrive transmission, and considerable highway mileage are very different operating conditions from a hot-rod carbed application used as a toy.

I googled used oil analysis and found about a dozen places doing it on the first page alone. Knowing that equality is an ideal and that some labs are better than others, I'm curious as to which place does your UOA for you. Thanks!

[propuckstopper]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

I googled used oil analysis and found about a dozen places doing it on the first page alone. Knowing that equality is an ideal and that some labs are better than others, I'm curious as to which place does your UOA for you. Thanks!

I use Blackstone Labs, in Indiana.

[Schurkey]

I've heard good things about Blackstone. I've never actually used them.

I'm currently using Detroit Diesel sample kits, which get shipped off to one of four labs. I think I'm using one in Ohio. It's just a matter of sticking the pre-printed sticker with the address of your choice of the four labs on the outside of the plastic sample container. I forget what the postage is, but they always ask if you're shipping something fragile, liquid, perishable, or hazardous--and therefore the oil sample has to ship via "ground", so it takes longer. The friggin' thing is inside a sealed container, inside another sealed container. I don't get the need for "ground" transportation.

I bought a case of DD oil sample kits probably five or ten years ago. Still have about half left. I think I paid $15 or $17 each, I'm sure the cost is higher now, especially for individual kits rather than case lot.

To start with, twenty years ago, I used a Cummins (Or was it CAT?) lab.

This is an old report--I've since switched to Amsoil and longer change intervals from the Mobil 1 I was using.


For the record, I'm fully in favor of bypass oil filtration as Sirrotica described. I have a Frantz asswipe oil filter on my boat, and one on my solvent tank. The big problem is finding room to install them cleanly--and there is NO room on the Trailblazer, Luminas, or Monte Carlo.

[Sirrotica]

Schurkey, thanks for your vote of confidence of the message I've tried to convey on PY for 5-6 years now. I use the Frantz on my own vehicles because of course I bought a franchise in 2011.

Truth is any by pass filters will work very satisfactorily, you spoke of now using Amsoil oil, they also have a fine filter as does Baldwin and a whole host of other fine filter companies. The Frantz filters also have media that is about as cheap as possible and still does an excellent job of removing particulate down to 1 micron, yep single ply toilet paper.

The crew of the Boss Bird (Mike his crew and Eric) have also adopted a modified form of the by pass system for their fuel funny car engine. Theirs is a 5 micron dual filter system.

Frantz is affiliated with a oil lab that is located here in Ohio and is fairly economical for UOA sampling, $14.95 per sample.

Link to their oil sampling: http://www.frantzfilters.com/product/oil-analysis/
Notice the 60-70,000 mile oil changes on a 500,000 mile engine in their sample UOA sheet.

[1968GTO421]

Schurkey, thanks for all that info you posted....Appreciate it!! I'll have to get one of their kits and check Blackstone and see what happens. Thanks again.

[mgarblik]

Having oil tested at the lab is proof positive that the maintenance you are doing is proper and you are not wasting "perfectly good oil". That being said, most car owners do not sample their oil. An old mentor of mine once told me "oil is cheaper than metal", and I have never forgotten that. I have NEVER seen an engine damaged by changing oil TOO often. Both GM and Chrysler have been having problems with their late model cars killing timing chains, guides and tensioners. The cause? The maintenance reminder software is running the engines way too long before the oil change reminder comes on. It cost close to 3K to fix all that crap when it fails. Typically, following the maintenance reminders, the parts last 60-70K. Out of warranty and a customer pay repair. I would rather do 6 extra oil changes.