[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Stan, things can get confusing when people pick, and choose what questions they want to answer. Also when they have an agenda they want to get out but don't have the stones to get to the point. Sorry you have no game in the high performance automotive field and have to hang all your hopes on the performance of some guys car whom you have probably never met. You seem to be very good at mathematics, you might want to stay in that arena.

You have a nice day also!
Paul K (not Bud, Abbott or Lou)

Paul,
It is clear that we took different professional paths in are lives. I got into computers in '68. No I do not have a race car now. I had to dig these out as they have not fit me in a long time. I was at these and other National Events crewing on other peoples race car.

Stan

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Whats with the 1.20 60ft.
You you fudging in making it a pooch on the hit?

John,
Let see Lil Jack run those numbers first.

I heard all kinds of no way when I posted something like this.

60 Foot ET = 1.1167
330 Foot ET = 3.0521
1/8 Mile ET = 4.7144
1/8 Mile MPH = 147.0440
1000 Foot ET = 6.1648
1/4 Mile ET = 7.3987
1/4 Mile MPH = 183.1335

Stan

[pontibeast]

Okay now, who's on first?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Paul,
It is clear that we took different professional paths in are lives. I got into computers in '68. No I do not have a race car now. I had to dig these out as they have not fit me in a long time. I was at these and other National Events crewing on other peoples race car.

Stan

Cool shirts! Thanks for posting the pictures. IMO things were more fun thirty years ago.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by pontibeast

Okay now, who's on first?

Who

[Slick]

... ok great, thanks for pointing that out Jeff, while i can understand many of his points he suggested, i will say one's opinion will often be very different if you're standing behind the firing squad versus being in front of it ... IMO

... but welcome aboard Slick, got any pics of your build/car, etc ?? ...

im not aware of any other strait valve head that has made almost 1100hp n/a on a 13:1cr nitrous build

umm,
you could say the same thing of the detractors.. or do you feel they should get a pass to make any claim they want? not trying to be a smart ass, really want to know as i havent seen you scold them

i remember calvin said some guys came by his display at norwalk few years back and, while looking at his cv-1's, said "these look really nice... but isnt there supposed to be something wrong with them?"
i know john marcella is hitting the 'quote' button right now- lol.. that depends on what the intended goals of the design were- his are different. the goals were to provide a cheaper alternative to a wide port ehead without sacrificing power, which dick fultons dyno comparison proved- his 'as cast' cv-1's produced 30 more hp than his wide port eheads.. same motor, same dyno.
second was that there would be more potential in the design. although dicks 1096hp nitrous motor is the only example thus far, were are working on others. we do this as time and $ permit.

timewarp is unfortunately correct- the internet is a powerful tool to the negative or positive. lets say someone were to run around posting "CV-1's cant make 1000HP" for years, and suggest it was because the design was f'ed up... how many interested buyers looking for real info would read that and decide that- true or not- the purchase wasnt worth the risk?

ive tried not to post here, but slick's post brought up some valid points that i felt needed addressing.
jim

This has been a long time coming, and I really didn't want to do it, but since MysticMissle has put my name out there, here we go.

In my earlier post, it wasn't my intention to get into minutia, nor to get into arguments with either the antagonists or protagonists. I'll leave that capably in the hands of others.

Bill, my car is a work in (very slow) progress. It will never be a race car, only a street car. With the ET it would be capable of, it wouldn't be allowed to make a pass. I won't do those things needed to make the car leave properly or be legal at a strip; that would destroy it's utility to me as a street driven pleasure performance car. To that end, it will never produce any sort of ET worth bragging about. The only data from the car might be chassis dyno numbers, and we all know what they are worth!

Mysticmissle will attest to the unphotogenic appearance of the car right now.

It wasn't my intention to become a CV-1 owner. Actually, I was thinking KRE High Ports. The Ram air V available at the time had me a bit concerned. Unproven, to say the least. In my financial position, with life's challenges, I cannot afford "unproven".

Mystic's engine came up for sale at the right time. It is a proven pump gas engine. The cam, lifters and valve springs will ultimately need to change for my application, but the deal was too good to pass up. Again, it is a proven engine. I could not have asked for a more forthcoming, honest and genuinely nice guy to buy an engine from.

He sold the engine because he wanted to go faster. My conversations with Jim, Bruce and Calvin Hill all led me to the conclusion that the motor should produce more HP than it does. There are so many examples of pump gas engines that make way more power than this 511 does. Don Johnston's unported RAV heads on a factory block with hydraulic roller making 40-50HP more with less compressionis an excellent example.

Still, for my needs, right now, it's fine.

Jim,

Please, please, please(!) take this as constructive criticism: capitalize; punctuate, check your spelling, and think before typing!

The only contact most people will ever have with you is what you write. When it is unfinished, that's how you are perceived: as a non-finisher. Your posts tell us that we are not important enough for you to take the time to present your case well. In the back of our minds, we have to think, "gosh, if this is how he presents himself to us, what about his products?" The Roland Racing website is another example of an unfinished product. Fix it, show us that you care enough to finish a project. You are clearly not an unintelligent person, do you want to succeed?

As the above pertains to your product, I am a second hand purchaser of the product, yet virtually no information is published about it. I wanted to purchase a set of spark plugs. Pretty basic, eh? No information on your site as to what plug to use. I had to text Mysticmissle and ask! What about recommendations for valve springs, cams, shaft or stud rockers? Nothing. Leads me to think: no support.

Further, please don't try to impress me with someone else's engine. Follow the Don Johnston lead. He wants to succeed. So what did he do? First he has built a stock block engine and PROVED that his out of the box heads make power. I KNOW it's expensive, but so was bringing a new product to the market. Finish it by proving it. Yourself, as the manufacturer, like Don, KRE and Allpontiac have with their own showcase pieces. If you want to succeed.

Everyone in life has detractors. We drive Pontiacs for God's sake, we are used to the laughter, name calling, disinformation, etc. Too bad. Suck it up! Prove them wrong by building what it takes to show us that you are right in your thinking. Quit whining that life isn't fair. Please remember who you are dealing with here. Not all have triple digit IQ's, yet they can type! Ignore them. Ignore the guys who are busting your balls. Too bad. Wanna make them look bad? It won't happen in a poorly worded, unfinished post in an insignificant thread. You'll make them look bad by showing the true potential of your product in a completed engine going down a dragstrip, at every Pontiac event you can get it to! Beat them yourself (not necessarily with you driving) with your product, on their turf. You WILL win customers!

You have Bill on your side, and he seems to be superb at what he does, if only he will also quit responding to the gathering mob. John Marcella has offered to help him. You've got some seriously big talent and serious egos here willing to help you. Are you a rainmaker? Take the talent willing to help you. Pay them well, listen to them and produce the best head that can be bolted to a Pontiac block, within what ever ultimate limitations your group chooses to impose.

If you are thinking, this is too expensive, then it was a mistake to have started something you won't complete. Just like the "street head" claim. There are lots of street heads out there, ones that look like Pontiac heads, fit with street car options like power brakes and A/C. They flow plenty of air and put up big numbers. Why would you introduce an almost complete topology change for a street car? It doesn't pass the smell test.

Where the Pontiac engine needs help isn't in the street realm, it's in the heads-up big horsepower arena where we are seriously outgunned. Why would you totally change the intake side but leave the Siamese center exhaust ports, knowing the disadvantage in high compression or power adder applications? Ram Air V needs new headers, why, or why wouldn't you have at least made an exhaust side which could have used a Ram Air V header???
If that's not technically feasible, then design a custom header.

Sell the headers, a variety of intake manifolds, suggested cams, etc. ,along with supporting data, on your website!

If you are financially incapable of doing the above, then take on a business partner or two. But you'll need to convince them that you are a project finisher, and can ultimately win. And this is all about winning. How bad do YOU want to win?

I have been a Pontiac guy since before 1970. I always will be. I live and breathe for Pontiac. Met and became friends with Bob Maxey around 1975. He taught me a lot. He built and finished fast, winning race cars and engines. He did have SD-455 headed moderate compression single Dominator engines running 8.80's. Maybe quicker, I don't remember. But I do remember the derision of the Chevy and Mopar guys. He never whined about their words, he kicked their asses.

I live vicariously in the successes of all the racers on this board. and I do mean that. Everyone from Lil' Jack to Dick Fulton, from Allpontiac to Butler to KRE, from Justin Shearer to Grandville455 makes me proud to be a Pontiac owner. I can't devote the time or money to building my own race car, my street car will have to do it for me.

So please, remember I want all Pontiac guys to succeed!

Pontiac to the Front! My Friends!

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

John,
Let see Lil Jack run those numbers first.

I heard all kinds of no way when I posted something like this.

60 Foot ET = 1.1167
330 Foot ET = 3.0521
1/8 Mile ET = 4.7144
1/8 Mile MPH = 147.0440
1000 Foot ET = 6.1648
1/4 Mile ET = 7.3987
1/4 Mile MPH = 183.1335

Stan

... Hey Stan, can you tell me what you come up with using this last projection you posted, but change the MPH @ 1/8th to 149.8 and tell me what that change will look like to rest of the run please ??

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Slick

This has been a long time coming, and I really didn't want to do it, but since MysticMissle has put my name out there, here we go.

In my earlier post, it wasn't my intention to get into minutia, nor to get into arguments with either the antagonists or protagonists. I'll leave that capably in the hands of others.

Bill, my car is a work in (very slow) progress. It will never be a race car, only a street car. With the ET it would be capable of, it wouldn't be allowed to make a pass. I won't do those things needed to make the car leave properly or be legal at a strip; that would destroy it's utility to me as a street driven pleasure performance car. To that end, it will never produce any sort of ET worth bragging about. The only data from the car might be chassis dyno numbers, and we all know what they are worth!

Mysticmissle will attest to the unphotogenic appearance of the car right now.

It wasn't my intention to become a CV-1 owner. Actually, I was thinking KRE High Ports. The Ram air V available at the time had me a bit concerned. Unproven, to say the least. In my financial position, with life's challenges, I cannot afford "unproven".

Mystic's engine came up for sale at the right time. It is a proven pump gas engine. The cam, lifters and valve springs will ultimately need to change for my application, but the deal was too good to pass up. Again, it is a proven engine. I could not have asked for a more forthcoming, honest and genuinely nice guy to buy an engine from.

He sold the engine because he wanted to go faster. My conversations with Jim, Bruce and Calvin Hill all led me to the conclusion that the motor should produce more HP than it does. There are so many examples of pump gas engines that make way more power than this 511 does. Don Johnston's unported RAV heads on a factory block with hydraulic roller making 40-50HP more with less compressionis an excellent example.

Still, for my needs, right now, it's fine.

Jim,

Please, please, please(!) take this as constructive criticism: capitalize; punctuate, check your spelling, and think before typing!

The only contact most people will ever have with you is what you write. When it is unfinished, that's how you are perceived: as a non-finisher. Your posts tell us that we are not important enough for you to take the time to present your case well. In the back of our minds, we have to think, "gosh, if this is how he presents himself to us, what about his products?" The Roland Racing website is another example of an unfinished product. Fix it, show us that you care enough to finish a project. You are clearly not an unintelligent person, do you want to succeed?

As the above pertains to your product, I am a second hand purchaser of the product, yet virtually no information is published about it. I wanted to purchase a set of spark plugs. Pretty basic, eh? No information on your site as to what plug to use. I had to text Mysticmissle and ask! What about recommendations for valve springs, cams, shaft or stud rockers? Nothing. Leads me to think: no support.

Further, please don't try to impress me with someone else's engine. Follow the Don Johnston lead. He wants to succeed. So what did he do? First he has built a stock block engine and PROVED that his out of the box heads make power. I KNOW it's expensive, but so was bringing a new product to the market. Finish it by proving it. Yourself, as the manufacturer, like Don, KRE and Allpontiac have with their own showcase pieces. If you want to succeed.

Everyone in life has detractors. We drive Pontiacs for God's sake, we are used to the laughter, name calling, disinformation, etc. Too bad. Suck it up! Prove them wrong by building what it takes to show us that you are right in your thinking. Quit whining that life isn't fair. Please remember who you are dealing with here. Not all have triple digit IQ's, yet they can type! Ignore them. Ignore the guys who are busting your balls. Too bad. Wanna make them look bad? It won't happen in a poorly worded, unfinished post in an insignificant thread. You'll make them look bad by showing the true potential of your product in a completed engine going down a dragstrip, at every Pontiac event you can get it to! Beat them yourself (not necessarily with you driving) with your product, on their turf. You WILL win customers!

You have Bill on your side, and he seems to be superb at what he does, if only he will also quit responding to the gathering mob. John Marcella has offered to help him. You've got some seriously big talent and serious egos here willing to help you. Are you a rainmaker? Take the talent willing to help you. Pay them well, listen to them and produce the best head that can be bolted to a Pontiac block, within what ever ultimate limitations your group chooses to impose.

If you are thinking, this is too expensive, then it was a mistake to have started something you won't complete. Just like the "street head" claim. There are lots of street heads out there, ones that look like Pontiac heads, fit with street car options like power brakes and A/C. They flow plenty of air and put up big numbers. Why would you introduce an almost complete topology change for a street car? It doesn't pass the smell test.

Where the Pontiac engine needs help isn't in the street realm, it's in the heads-up big horsepower arena where we are seriously outgunned. Why would you totally change the intake side but leave the Siamese center exhaust ports, knowing the disadvantage in high compression or power adder applications? Ram Air V needs new headers, why, or why wouldn't you have at least made an exhaust side which could have used a Ram Air V header???
If that's not technically feasible, then design a custom header.

Sell the headers, a variety of intake manifolds, suggested cams, etc. ,along with supporting data, on your website!

If you are financially incapable of doing the above, then take on a business partner or two. But you'll need to convince them that you are a project finisher, and can ultimately win. And this is all about winning. How bad do YOU want to win?

I have been a Pontiac guy since before 1970. I always will be. I live and breathe for Pontiac. Met and became friends with Bob Maxey around 1975. He taught me a lot. He built and finished fast, winning race cars and engines. He did have SD-455 headed moderate compression single Dominator engines running 8.80's. Maybe quicker, I don't remember. But I do remember the derision of the Chevy and Mopar guys. He never whined about their words, he kicked their asses.

I live vicariously in the successes of all the racers on this board. and I do mean that. Everyone from Lil' Jack to Dick Fulton, from Allpontiac to Butler to KRE, from Justin Shearer to Grandville455 makes me proud to be a Pontiac owner. I can't devote the time or money to building my own race car, my street car will have to do it for me.

So please, remember I want all Pontiac guys to succeed!

Pontiac to the Front! My Friends!

A lot of good ideas there.

[mysticmissle]

Originally Posted by Slick

This has been a long time coming, and I really didn't want to do it, but since MysticMissle has put my name out there, here we go.

In my earlier post, it wasn't my intention to get into minutia, nor to get into arguments with either the antagonists or protagonists. I'll leave that capably in the hands of others.

Bill, my car is a work in (very slow) progress. It will never be a race car, only a street car. With the ET it would be capable of, it wouldn't be allowed to make a pass. I won't do those things needed to make the car leave properly or be legal at a strip; that would destroy it's utility to me as a street driven pleasure performance car. To that end, it will never produce any sort of ET worth bragging about. The only data from the car might be chassis dyno numbers, and we all know what they are worth!

Mysticmissle will attest to the unphotogenic appearance of the car right now.

It wasn't my intention to become a CV-1 owner. Actually, I was thinking KRE High Ports. The Ram air V available at the time had me a bit concerned. Unproven, to say the least. In my financial position, with life's challenges, I cannot afford "unproven".

Mystic's engine came up for sale at the right time. It is a proven pump gas engine. The cam, lifters and valve springs will ultimately need to change for my application, but the deal was too good to pass up. Again, it is a proven engine. I could not have asked for a more forthcoming, honest and genuinely nice guy to buy an engine from.

He sold the engine because he wanted to go faster. My conversations with Jim, Bruce and Calvin Hill all led me to the conclusion that the motor should produce more HP than it does. There are so many examples of pump gas engines that make way more power than this 511 does. Don Johnston's unported RAV heads on a factory block with hydraulic roller making 40-50HP more with less compressionis an excellent example.

Still, for my needs, right now, it's fine.

Jim,

Please, please, please(!) take this as constructive criticism: capitalize; punctuate, check your spelling, and think before typing!

The only contact most people will ever have with you is what you write. When it is unfinished, that's how you are perceived: as a non-finisher. Your posts tell us that we are not important enough for you to take the time to present your case well. In the back of our minds, we have to think, "gosh, if this is how he presents himself to us, what about his products?" The Roland Racing website is another example of an unfinished product. Fix it, show us that you care enough to finish a project. You are clearly not an unintelligent person, do you want to succeed?

As the above pertains to your product, I am a second hand purchaser of the product, yet virtually no information is published about it. I wanted to purchase a set of spark plugs. Pretty basic, eh? No information on your site as to what plug to use. I had to text Mysticmissle and ask! What about recommendations for valve springs, cams, shaft or stud rockers? Nothing. Leads me to think: no support.

Further, please don't try to impress me with someone else's engine. Follow the Don Johnston lead. He wants to succeed. So what did he do? First he has built a stock block engine and PROVED that his out of the box heads make power. I KNOW it's expensive, but so was bringing a new product to the market. Finish it by proving it. Yourself, as the manufacturer, like Don, KRE and Allpontiac have with their own showcase pieces. If you want to succeed.

Everyone in life has detractors. We drive Pontiacs for God's sake, we are used to the laughter, name calling, disinformation, etc. Too bad. Suck it up! Prove them wrong by building what it takes to show us that you are right in your thinking. Quit whining that life isn't fair. Please remember who you are dealing with here. Not all have triple digit IQ's, yet they can type! Ignore them. Ignore the guys who are busting your balls. Too bad. Wanna make them look bad? It won't happen in a poorly worded, unfinished post in an insignificant thread. You'll make them look bad by showing the true potential of your product in a completed engine going down a dragstrip, at every Pontiac event you can get it to! Beat them yourself (not necessarily with you driving) with your product, on their turf. You WILL win customers!

You have Bill on your side, and he seems to be superb at what he does, if only he will also quit responding to the gathering mob. John Marcella has offered to help him. You've got some seriously big talent and serious egos here willing to help you. Are you a rainmaker? Take the talent willing to help you. Pay them well, listen to them and produce the best head that can be bolted to a Pontiac block, within what ever ultimate limitations your group chooses to impose.

If you are thinking, this is too expensive, then it was a mistake to have started something you won't complete. Just like the "street head" claim. There are lots of street heads out there, ones that look like Pontiac heads, fit with street car options like power brakes and A/C. They flow plenty of air and put up big numbers. Why would you introduce an almost complete topology change for a street car? It doesn't pass the smell test.

Where the Pontiac engine needs help isn't in the street realm, it's in the heads-up big horsepower arena where we are seriously outgunned. Why would you totally change the intake side but leave the Siamese center exhaust ports, knowing the disadvantage in high compression or power adder applications? Ram Air V needs new headers, why, or why wouldn't you have at least made an exhaust side which could have used a Ram Air V header???
If that's not technically feasible, then design a custom header.

Sell the headers, a variety of intake manifolds, suggested cams, etc. ,along with supporting data, on your website!

If you are financially incapable of doing the above, then take on a business partner or two. But you'll need to convince them that you are a project finisher, and can ultimately win. And this is all about winning. How bad do YOU want to win?

I have been a Pontiac guy since before 1970. I always will be. I live and breathe for Pontiac. Met and became friends with Bob Maxey around 1975. He taught me a lot. He built and finished fast, winning race cars and engines. He did have SD-455 headed moderate compression single Dominator engines running 8.80's. Maybe quicker, I don't remember. But I do remember the derision of the Chevy and Mopar guys. He never whined about their words, he kicked their asses.

I live vicariously in the successes of all the racers on this board. and I do mean that. Everyone from Lil' Jack to Dick Fulton, from Allpontiac to Butler to KRE, from Justin Shearer to Grandville455 makes me proud to be a Pontiac owner. I can't devote the time or money to building my own race car, my street car will have to do it for me.

So please, remember I want all Pontiac guys to succeed!

Pontiac to the Front! My Friends!

Slick I apologize if I disclosed your onwership. I just thought your words carried more weight if they were known to be from an owner not a heretic. Very sorry to have dragged you into this against your will.

[Slick]

Originally Posted by mysticmissle

Slick I apologize if I disclosed your onwership. I just thought your words carried more weight if they were known to be from an owner not a heretic. Very sorry to have dragged you into this against your will.

No sweat Mystic!

These things have been on my mind since before I bought your engine. They nagged at me back then, but after having some skin in the game, and after our Garage Beer Summit, they took on more meaning.

Every time I read a thread like this, I cringe, hoping for different behavior, but alas, same old, same old.

Better that I said it. Hopefully, it will be taken constructively!

Slick

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Anderson Port Development

... Hey Stan, can you tell me what you come up with using this last projection you posted, but change the MPH @ 1/8th to 149.8 and tell me what that change will look like to rest of the run please ??

Bill,
The difference between the two simulations that I posted above was to just not remove as much power down low to improve the 60 foot times.

If I adjust so that the 60 foot time stays the same as that run while adding some power later in the run.

60 Foot ET = 1.1167
330 Foot ET = 3.0251
1/8 Mile ET = 4.6581
1/8 Mile MPH = 149.8362
1000 Foot ET = 6.0810
1/4 Mile ET = 7.2908
1/4 Mile MPH = 186.8020

I have no idea how what I have setup in this simulation matches your car setup. This simulation uses 2.1:1 1.4:1 1.0:1. The last time I had time to play around and try to simulate your runs at Norwalk I was using a 1.9:1 first witch seemed to get a better match up. - 2.439 0.9925

Stan

[Robin]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

A set of Gaby E heads with a single four on my car at 3460# was the first to go 7.94@170 mph 4 years ago when Robin Roberts with his CV1s at 3300# was burning up Pistons trying to get in the 7s.
That's just the fact right there!

This HAS to be the dumbest, most off topic thread ever! But you just can't stop reading it!!! It is like a dead body or a train wreck. Trust me, NO WAY did I want to step in here. Then I came across the BS above which is not in any way fact.

Jack went on to say he "only bashes fake azz racers" while referencing me. So, to set the record straight, here are the real facts on "fake azz racers" and pistons:

For Jack to say he only bashes "fake azz racers" while using my name in the referenced context is just dead wrong on so many levels. I am 1 and 0 against Minimal Jack. In any sporting event, even racing a forfeit is a loss. I towed from AZ to Norwalk to beat him in an agreed upon race when he talked trash for years. Only to have him back down when we had made some test passes. Every pass we made was faster than his, and we were spinning the tires to half track and couldn't find the handle. What baffled me was I actually thought he was a good man, he came up to me while I was sitting in the car staged for a run and Bill was checking the tires and said (verbatim) "man that trash talk on the internet, it's just trash talk to have fun, I got nothing for you today." Respectable, I thought. We had beers that night and really angered the old man parked next to my pit (oh boy was he pissed in the morning) and we had a good time with a whole host of people. Maybe it is that people are different when you are not around? Maybe it is that some just can't keep it together when the keyboard is humming (I love my friend Bill, but I think he falls in this category and I have told him so). Maybe it is just jealousy: I got in the magazine from Norwalk and on next years Pontiac Nationals T shirt. Minimal Jack got???????????? That is fact!

Jack, never use my name and "fake" in the same context, you haven't earned the right.

Next BS: In multiple decades of nitrous use I burned 1 piston... while running Tiger heads. Let's not go there, I am not blaming and never have blamed the head. I put CV heads on 8 years ago or so and the same short block is still in the car. I did torch a valve while chasing a 7, a result of too little timing and my learning curve when I added the fogger. I have NEVER had any other issues with the engine though we made numerous passes over 170mph with a best of 175. We unfortunately never found the first 100 ft.

We had just put a 2.10 low, new converter, changed the shocks and more... then had to sit out a while while we concentrated on business and family. This summer I got the itch so we ran many full races in airport style grudge matches, raced in the Roadkill nights events on Kansas Speedway pit road and on Woodward Ave at the Woodward Dream Cruise, etc.. We had a lot of fun! We won some, we were competitive at others, I never lost a grudge race. We burned up 2 nitrous mother bottles, 2 sets of tires, and we never changed the plugs. We pulled them and put them right back in while we adjusted off of the 02s. The car is still pretty fast! But now dated. Winter is coming....

Why this head stuff is so pissy I will never know. Seems we should be happy to have so many options. Maybe I should go race a Mopar

Happy Hunting fellas! In the infamous words of Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I guess my facts are about as factual as your facts are Bruce.

Brian I would say most times both of us have our facts right. We can misinterpret, mis-state, confuse one car with another, have wrong data or outdated data. we can even forget to include data, or omit things we dont think matters.

Not having eye contact combined with writing interpretation makes it difficult to know intent.

As a group maybe we nit pick too much?

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Slick

No sweat Mystic!

These things have been on my mind since before I bought your engine. They nagged at me back then, but after having some skin in the game, and after our Garage Beer Summit, they took on more meaning.

Every time I read a thread like this, I cringe, hoping for different behavior, but alas, same old, same old.

Better that I said it. Hopefully, it will be taken constructively!

Slick

If I remember correctly, you had interest in the KRE HP's I've worked on. As far as when Jeff owned the motor, I offered my advice. I don't remember all of the details regarding the build, I would be happy to provide any input to you. I have no skin in the game regarding who's heads. I have my opinions and my experience with the heads I've worked. I have two 400+ CNC cylinder head options, The KRE HP and CV-1 (gen 1). I'm happy with some of the builds we've had input on, others have not performed to our expectations.

It took me sometime to come to the conclusion I can't WANT to achieve higher results as compared to the WANTS of the owner of the build. I CAN"T CONTROL what cam, carbs and other parts people choose because they talked to this guy or heard that from another guy. I get it when someone wants to be involved, but when the results don't add up, they like to blame others vs looking in the mirror.

The 511ci that I built for Tom Syron is a great example of him giving me a budget and allowing me to make the choices. He actually pushed back on me a bit about the carb, but once we proved it on the dyno, it made 25 more HP he was happy! The build was not a max effort and I know we will find more.

I built a pump gas 535ci CV-1 motor a few years back. I was disappointed with the initial results, around 750 HP. We changed the cam, valve springs, worked the manifold a bit more and changed carb, the end result was 811HP. You can always be learning.

These event have allowed me to choose my customers more wisely and I have no hesitation in turning away business.

I do think it's good for you to post your thoughts and this is really a good use of the forum.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Robin

This HAS to be the dumbest, most off topic thread ever! But you just can't stop reading it!!! It is like a dead body or a train wreck. Trust me, NO WAY did I want to step in here. Then I came across the BS above which is not in any way fact.

Jack went on to say he "only bashes fake azz racers" while referencing me. So, to set the record straight, here are the real facts on "fake azz racers" and pistons:

For Jack to say he only bashes "fake azz racers" while using my name in the referenced context is just dead wrong on so many levels. I am 1 and 0 against Minimal Jack. In any sporting event, even racing a forfeit is a loss. I towed from AZ to Norwalk to beat him in an agreed upon race when he talked trash for years. Only to have him back down when we had made some test passes. Every pass we made was faster than his, and we were spinning the tires to half track and couldn't find the handle. What baffled me was I actually thought he was a good man, he came up to me while I was sitting in the car staged for a run and Bill was checking the tires and said (verbatim) "man that trash talk on the internet, it's just trash talk to have fun, I got nothing for you today." Respectable, I thought. We had beers that night and really angered the old man parked next to my pit (oh boy was he pissed in the morning) and we had a good time with a whole host of people. Maybe it is that people are different when you are not around? Maybe it is that some just can't keep it together when the keyboard is humming (I love my friend Bill, but I think he falls in this category and I have told him so). Maybe it is just jealousy: I got in the magazine from Norwalk and on next years Pontiac Nationals T shirt. Minimal Jack got???????????? That is fact!

Jack, never use my name and "fake" in the same context, you haven't earned the right.

Next BS: In multiple decades of nitrous use I burned 1 piston... while running Tiger heads. Let's not go there, I am not blaming and never have blamed the head. I put CV heads on 8 years ago or so and the same short block is still in the car. I did torch a valve while chasing a 7, a result of too little timing and my learning curve when I added the fogger. I have NEVER had any other issues with the engine though we made numerous passes over 170mph with a best of 175. We unfortunately never found the first 100 ft.

We had just put a 2.10 low, new converter, changed the shocks and more... then had to sit out a while while we concentrated on business and family. This summer I got the itch so we ran many full races in airport style grudge matches, raced in the Roadkill nights events on Kansas Speedway pit road and on Woodward Ave at the Woodward Dream Cruise, etc.. We had a lot of fun! We won some, we were competitive at others, I never lost a grudge race. We burned up 2 nitrous mother bottles, 2 sets of tires, and we never changed the plugs. We pulled them and put them right back in while we adjusted off of the 02s. The car is still pretty fast! But now dated. Winter is coming....

Why this head stuff is so pissy I will never know. Seems we should be happy to have so many options. Maybe I should go race a Mopar

Happy Hunting fellas! In the infamous words of Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"

I never called you a fake azz racer or insuated that you were one. I don't know where you came up with this.

We went 8.30s two weeks before Norwalk and I changed the front springs and threw the chassis all out sort and therefore said I could not race you.
Party on.

[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by Slick

Bill, my car is a work in (very slow) progress. It will never be a race car, only a street car. With the ET it would be capable of, it wouldn't be allowed to make a pass. I won't do those things needed to make the car leave properly or be legal at a strip; that would destroy it's utility to me as a street driven pleasure performance car. To that end, it will never produce any sort of ET worth bragging about. The only data from the car might be chassis dyno numbers, and we all know what they are worth!

Mysticmissle will attest to the unphotogenic appearance of the car right now.





I live vicariously in the successes of all the racers on this board. and I do mean that. Everyone from Lil' Jack to Dick Fulton, from Allpontiac to Butler to KRE, from Justin Shearer to Grandville455 makes me proud to be a Pontiac owner. I can't devote the time or money to building my own race car, my street car will have to do it for me.

So please, remember I want all Pontiac guys to succeed!

Pontiac to the Front! My Friends!

Stuart made two very good points. The first is...plenty of that original run of CV-1 heads are sitting either on the shelf in someone's garage or in an unfinished car. For everyone that has asked where they are thats a point to be made. Mine for example are brand new and have never been on an engine yet, except to take a couple of pictures. That will change shortly.

And I still say the head was dead for about 3 years. They werent being made, and very few were being run. Very few. That doesnt mean Bill wasn't playing with port designs and ideas, but thats not the same.

The second point he's making is is the same one I've been driving at. We need to be a brotherhood, not bickering at each other with nasty jabs, innuendos, etc. Its fine to be competitive and slam the door on the guy in the lane next to you, but have some class and respect.

Most people will never see that you shook his hand or had a beer with him, but THIS acid-like Yellow Bullet mentality will be seen by people over, and over, and over.....and in a way to some people thats what we will become.

We have a choice in how we behave. Let's not be the typical internet dysfunctional community. Give the CV-1 heads more time. Give the Visner heads some time.

[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Bruce, not that it's important but I know you think sometimes I'm vague but I can't believe you think TimeWarp isn't.... his posts confuse himself. I pointed one out.

No confusion here. But you forget that I was not only addressing you with much of what I said.

[T Syron]

Originally Posted by Slick

This has been a long time coming, and I really didn't want to do it, but since MysticMissle has put my name out there, here we go.

In my earlier post, it wasn't my intention to get into minutia, nor to get into arguments with either the antagonists or protagonists. I'll leave that capably in the hands of others.

Bill, my car is a work in (very slow) progress. It will never be a race car, only a street car. With the ET it would be capable of, it wouldn't be allowed to make a pass. I won't do those things needed to make the car leave properly or be legal at a strip; that would destroy it's utility to me as a street driven pleasure performance car. To that end, it will never produce any sort of ET worth bragging about. The only data from the car might be chassis dyno numbers, and we all know what they are worth!

Mysticmissle will attest to the unphotogenic appearance of the car right now.

It wasn't my intention to become a CV-1 owner. Actually, I was thinking KRE High Ports. The Ram air V available at the time had me a bit concerned. Unproven, to say the least. In my financial position, with life's challenges, I cannot afford "unproven".

Mystic's engine came up for sale at the right time. It is a proven pump gas engine. The cam, lifters and valve springs will ultimately need to change for my application, but the deal was too good to pass up. Again, it is a proven engine. I could not have asked for a more forthcoming, honest and genuinely nice guy to buy an engine from.

He sold the engine because he wanted to go faster. My conversations with Jim, Bruce and Calvin Hill all led me to the conclusion that the motor should produce more HP than it does. There are so many examples of pump gas engines that make way more power than this 511 does. Don Johnston's unported RAV heads on a factory block with hydraulic roller making 40-50HP more with less compressionis an excellent example.

Still, for my needs, right now, it's fine.

Jim,

Please, please, please(!) take this as constructive criticism: capitalize; punctuate, check your spelling, and think before typing!

The only contact most people will ever have with you is what you write. When it is unfinished, that's how you are perceived: as a non-finisher. Your posts tell us that we are not important enough for you to take the time to present your case well. In the back of our minds, we have to think, "gosh, if this is how he presents himself to us, what about his products?" The Roland Racing website is another example of an unfinished product. Fix it, show us that you care enough to finish a project. You are clearly not an unintelligent person, do you want to succeed?

As the above pertains to your product, I am a second hand purchaser of the product, yet virtually no information is published about it. I wanted to purchase a set of spark plugs. Pretty basic, eh? No information on your site as to what plug to use. I had to text Mysticmissle and ask! What about recommendations for valve springs, cams, shaft or stud rockers? Nothing. Leads me to think: no support.

Further, please don't try to impress me with someone else's engine. Follow the Don Johnston lead. He wants to succeed. So what did he do? First he has built a stock block engine and PROVED that his out of the box heads make power. I KNOW it's expensive, but so was bringing a new product to the market. Finish it by proving it. Yourself, as the manufacturer, like Don, KRE and Allpontiac have with their own showcase pieces. If you want to succeed.

Everyone in life has detractors. We drive Pontiacs for God's sake, we are used to the laughter, name calling, disinformation, etc. Too bad. Suck it up! Prove them wrong by building what it takes to show us that you are right in your thinking. Quit whining that life isn't fair. Please remember who you are dealing with here. Not all have triple digit IQ's, yet they can type! Ignore them. Ignore the guys who are busting your balls. Too bad. Wanna make them look bad? It won't happen in a poorly worded, unfinished post in an insignificant thread. You'll make them look bad by showing the true potential of your product in a completed engine going down a dragstrip, at every Pontiac event you can get it to! Beat them yourself (not necessarily with you driving) with your product, on their turf. You WILL win customers!

You have Bill on your side, and he seems to be superb at what he does, if only he will also quit responding to the gathering mob. John Marcella has offered to help him. You've got some seriously big talent and serious egos here willing to help you. Are you a rainmaker? Take the talent willing to help you. Pay them well, listen to them and produce the best head that can be bolted to a Pontiac block, within what ever ultimate limitations your group chooses to impose.

If you are thinking, this is too expensive, then it was a mistake to have started something you won't complete. Just like the "street head" claim. There are lots of street heads out there, ones that look like Pontiac heads, fit with street car options like power brakes and A/C. They flow plenty of air and put up big numbers. Why would you introduce an almost complete topology change for a street car? It doesn't pass the smell test.

Where the Pontiac engine needs help isn't in the street realm, it's in the heads-up big horsepower arena where we are seriously outgunned. Why would you totally change the intake side but leave the Siamese center exhaust ports, knowing the disadvantage in high compression or power adder applications? Ram Air V needs new headers, why, or why wouldn't you have at least made an exhaust side which could have used a Ram Air V header???
If that's not technically feasible, then design a custom header.

Sell the headers, a variety of intake manifolds, suggested cams, etc. ,along with supporting data, on your website!

If you are financially incapable of doing the above, then take on a business partner or two. But you'll need to convince them that you are a project finisher, and can ultimately win. And this is all about winning. How bad do YOU want to win?

I have been a Pontiac guy since before 1970. I always will be. I live and breathe for Pontiac. Met and became friends with Bob Maxey around 1975. He taught me a lot. He built and finished fast, winning race cars and engines. He did have SD-455 headed moderate compression single Dominator engines running 8.80's. Maybe quicker, I don't remember. But I do remember the derision of the Chevy and Mopar guys. He never whined about their words, he kicked their asses.

I live vicariously in the successes of all the racers on this board. and I do mean that. Everyone from Lil' Jack to Dick Fulton, from Allpontiac to Butler to KRE, from Justin Shearer to Grandville455 makes me proud to be a Pontiac owner. I can't devote the time or money to building my own race car, my street car will have to do it for me.

So please, remember I want all Pontiac guys to succeed!

Pontiac to the Front! My Friends!

Slick,
I can assure you Jim cares about his customers wether they bought the heads from him or second hand. I bought my heads second hand and he could not have been more helpful when we were building my 511.

Tom Syron

[bruce driggers]

Originally Posted by T Syron

Slick,
I can assure you Jim cares about his customers wether they bought the heads from him or second hand. I bought my heads second hand and he could not have been more helpful when we were building my 511.

Tom Syron

X2, I bought my heads when they first came out , Jim has always been helpful with any question that I had , often calling , inquiring about my project. Also I want to add that Calvin & Bill were there with help , support also .

[Robin]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

The only thing I bash people on are them being fake azz racers and wanna be who talk a lot of chit and never back it up.

Then I am to "assume" this commentary and the bashing you did of me several times later were not connected?

And did you really just pull the "I went faster than you the weekend before" stunt?? LAME. And you didn't go faster than me ever at that time. You were always on here saying "what about the air, the weight..." it is exactly why I towed out to make it heads up.

I know several of your friends who I find to be honorable men, usually that means they won't tolerate someone in their circle who is not. So, I can't figure you out, or why you just wouldn't say "yep, you were faster than me that weekend!" Then you would have my respect and many others, but you just can't bring yourself to do it and I don't get it!

Your facts aren't facts, so keep them to yourself.

Merry Christmas.