[Rob B]

Stupid question. How thick of a shim/shims are you using with an IA2 block and a mini starter? Im replacing my old summit pro torque with a Robbmc starter with the nose support and right now I have .060 worth of shims under it and its still dragging. How much is to much? The old summit didnt need anything under it.

[steve25]

Brake clean and then black marker up the teeth on the starter then crank the motor some.
View the teeth and check the pattern as sometimes the drive gear and the flywheel are not parallel to each other and you need to make tapered shims or do such to the mounting pad on the starter to free things up ,in short it's a issue due to the starter!

Ware / pattern seen on the starter end of the drive gear would mean you need to lift the non flywheel end of the starter and reverse it if the other is seen.

.004" of needed clearance can make you smile !

060" worth of shims is all I would go so as to still have good flywheel ring gear life!

[60man]

Originally Posted by steve25

Brake clean and then black marker up the teeth on the starter then crank the motor some.
View the teeth and check the pattern as sometimes the drive gear and the flywheel are not parallel to each other and you need to make tapered shims or do such to the mounting pad on the starter to free things up ,in short it's a issue due to the starter!

Ware / pattern seen on the starter end of the drive gear would mean you need to lift the non flywheel end of the starter and reverse it if the other is seen.

.004" of needed clearance can make you smile !

060" worth of shims is all I would go so as to still have good flywheel ring gear life!

I thought about using Prussian Blue.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Although not an apples to apples comparison. When possible, when I've had an engine on a stand. I'd take the solenoid off the stock starter and engage the drive into the flexplate, go from there.
FWIW my T/A had a butt load of shims from factory, starter always worked flawlessly!

[BruceWilkie]

I have had a few stuations over the years where simply loosening the starter and shifting it left or right took care of drag issues.

That said there should also be 1/16"-3/16"(1/8" nominal) of clearance between pinion gear and ring gear(pinion stick out) when the starter is at rest. Too close can over engage and obviously way too close could/would cause interference. Not close enough results in poor engagement.

The other adjustment is pinion backlash. When the pinion is engaged there should be .015"-.030" backlash . Pinion teeth must not bottom in "valleys" on the ring gear.
Its good practice to check this clearance in several places on the ring gear as most ring gears will have some slight variance.

Here is the link to RobbMc's starter instructions.
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/ins...wnload/install open office 4 or similar if you cant open this file)

btw with a good combination square you can check that bell flange and starter flange are square (perpendicular) to each other. You can also check that starter bolts are parallel to the bell face.

[BruceWilkie]

above link didnt copy correctly

USE THIS LINK

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/ins...nIIstarter.doc

[Rob B]

I've got an email into to Robbmc.
The old Summit starter worked fine on my old motor for over 8-9 yrs and on the new motor the last year and a half with no issues. Only reason I'm replacing it because I wanted a starter with the pinion support and it sounded like the pinion was finally starting to wear out on the old one, making a little noise the last couple of times out. Last thing I wanted was to get stranded during rounds etc etc. Sad thing is that the new starter has sheared off a couple of teeth at different spots on my basically new TCI flex plate. And when I did a little research, discovered thats not an uncommon problem with those flex plates, not happy. I also took picts of everything including the old starter pinion to show the wear on it for how old it was and to show that it wasn't the culprit in tearing teeth off the flex plate and sent those in the email also.
The clearance between the flex plate and pinion is just a touch over .130 which is essentially in the middle of the tolerances of the starter. (.0625-.1875). With the support, its virtually impossible to measure the backlash but since I didn't have an issue with the old starter, I wouldn't have thought I'd have one with the new one. My last attempt was with .090 shims and it still made noise but was more of a screech than a hard grind this time. I have enough shims that I could fine tune from there but I want a definitive answer from the manufacturer before going anymore on the shims.
Now it looks like I'm going to have to pull the trans and replace the flex plate once I get this issue straightened out.
Never fails, we finally get a forecast to hopefully race tomorrow night and I get sidelined.

[twooldgoats]

With both my IAII blocks and an All-Pontiac starter, I had to use over 1/2" stack of shims! Works great, though. I just kept adding shims until I got the right clearances at the flexplate. I've been running it this way for eight years or so. I even needed longer starter mount bolts.

Jim

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

With both my IAII blocks and an All-Pontiac starter, I had to use over 1/2" stack of shims! Works great, though. I just kept adding shims until I got the right clearances at the flexplate. I've been running it this way for eight years or so. I even needed longer starter mount bolts.

Jim

As much as I hate to hear this, I'm glad it worked for you, it hasn't given you any problems, and thats probably what I'm going to have to do.
Thank you!!!

RobbMC gave me the measurement specs on the mounting block so I'll check that plus he gave me the Captain obvious way of precisely getting the pinion depth when the starter has the support on it. Simply take the support off then put the starter back to measure it. :duh: This will allow you to see the pinion and measure it. I guess this will be my plan of attack tonight. However, I can't forget that because of this, I'll be replacing my flex plate since this adventure cost it a couple of teeth.

I have a feeling the allpontiac starter is probably the RobbMC starter.

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

I even needed longer starter mount bolts.

Jim

Funny you say that. With the Summit starter, the mounting block is shorter so you have to use shorter (grade 8) bolts instead of standard knurled GM starter bolts.
The RobbMC starter instructions says to use standard GM starter bolts. So when I grabbed a couple I had, I noticed they bottomed out before drawing the starter all the way up. So I just put one (grade 8) washer under each bolt then they would work. I'm pretty much at the shim amount of the thickness of the washers I used, if that makes sense.
In theory, this would put the starter almost back to an even keel with my old starter shimming wise (none) so now I wonder if another .015 or .025 shim would get the starter where it needs to be. If thats the case, I'd have about .110-.115 worth of shims (under an 1/8th").... hmmm.

In his email Robb stated that on an OEM block, usually .015 is the popular shim amount on with their starter.

[grnmnstr]

I'm at about .125" with my GPE starter, IA2 and TCI flexplate.

[60man]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

With both my IAII blocks and an All-Pontiac starter, I had to use over 1/2" stack of shims! Works great, though. I just kept adding shims until I got the right clearances at the flexplate. I've been running it this way for eight years or so. I even needed longer starter mount bolts.

Jim

A 1/2".! Wow.

[Skip Fix]

I think mine and the Robb starter only took a couple of shims.

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

I think mine and the Robb starter only took a couple of shims.

Mine too. IAII and RobbMc starter, if I recall it is 2 shims. I do run a flywheel and the diameter and teeth where dead on.

[Mike Kasparian,Sr.]

I ended up making a single shim out of aluminum that was .125 thick for IA2 and GPE starter . Has been fine , no problems .

[Probird]

I not running any shims at all with my IA2 and an old IMI starter. Sounds like a real pain to have to add all those shims. My starter seems to be the only part of my engine that is working good though.

[60man]

Originally Posted by Rob B

As much as I hate to hear this, I'm glad it worked for you, it hasn't given you any problems, and thats probably what I'm going to have to do.
Thank you!!!

RobbMC gave me the measurement specs on the mounting block so I'll check that plus he gave me the Captain obvious way of precisely getting the pinion depth when the starter has the support on it. Simply take the support off then put the starter back to measure it. :duh: This will allow you to see the pinion and measure it. I guess this will be my plan of attack tonight. However, I can't forget that because of this, I'll be replacing my flex plate since this adventure cost it a couple of teeth.

I have a feeling the allpontiac starter is probably the RobbMC starter.

Robb told me to start with thinnest shim judging by witness marks on old pinion. I have support location marked,just need motivation to pull IMI off to do it. 🙄 want check anyhow to save my TCI flexplate. I had not heard of any problems with the TCI flexplate.?
I tore up 3 of the other brand x's.

[BruceWilkie]

Is it possible to have the mounting block upside down? In other words is the distance to pinion shaft equal from either end of mounting block?

(Stock starters aren't centered)

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Is it possible to have the mounting block upside down? In other words is the distance to pinion shaft equal from either end of mounting block?

(Stock starters aren't centered)

No to the second question.
I turn the solenoid upside down. easier to put the wires on.

[Rob B]

The starter had "top" written on it so unless you can't read, pretty hard to put on upside down.

I removed the support then was able to shim and measure out the pinion clearance. I ended up having .140" worth of shims to get .020 of clearance. Unfortunately I have to now pull the trans to replace the flex plate since I lost teeth on the ring gear. Sucks.