[bill ryder]

I ran across a Pontiac News Flash dated 10-18-63 that talks about the wrong dip stick, 4 and 5 qt. variety, could be installed in the wrong vehicles, specifically the GTO getting a 4 qt. dip stick. What caught my attention was a note saying this was easy to check and verify because the dip sticks had an identifying TAG stating 4 quart and 5 quart attached to the handle!!!!
That would be a neat detail!!!!! Anyone seen one of these, or even better, has a picture???
I tried to post the News Flash. To large even after zipping. "Bill"!

[62 bv]

hey i bet you find a lot of stuff in that that book have fun brody and any thing you make make some for me and ron later tell the miss hey for me

[tarheeltempest]

Here you go. I got this from the former owner's estate. The dipstick slides through the slot.

[tarheeltempest]

Former owner of my 1965 black 4 speed tri-power, 3:90, parchment, semi-metallic, no power options survivor- "barn find".

[tarheeltempest]

Double-sided by the way.

[bill ryder]

THANK YOU!! I am truly surprised at the quick response. PLEASE give me some measurements on circle diameter, type and thickness of paper and size of font.
The bulletin states it was on the handle. Do you believe it was OR on the straight blade? If on the blade, it would keep the bell from sealing on the tube.
In advance, THANKS for all you help.

John Misney (the duplicator!!), you have any interest in this?? "Bill"!

[62 bv]

bill what about the guy that made are rad stamps i am in later brody

[bill ryder]

I would think more of these were around. According to the News Flash, all HO engines used the 5 qt. dip stick and would be identified with this tag. "Bill"!
I've been looking in my MPC with no luck. The suppliers don't seem to know about it either.

[tarheeltempest]

Originally Posted by bill ryder

THANK YOU!! I am truly surprised at the quick response. PLEASE give me some measurements on circle diameter, type and thickness of paper and size of font.
The bulletin states it was on the handle. Do you believe it was OR on the straight blade? If on the blade, it would keep the bell from sealing on the tube.
In advance, THANKS for all you help.

John Misney (the duplicator!!), you have any interest in this?? "Bill"!

Bill, give me a little time and I'll get you precise measurements. I had 't thought about it, but you're probably right about how the label was attached. I haven't tried it, but probably was on the handle. I've never seen a photo or illustration. Would love to see an accurate repro.

[johnta1]

Here's an excerpt from the Service Craftsman News of the oil dipstick:



With the 2000 mile service work, there should be no 'wrong' dipsticks you would think?

[John V.]

tarheeltempest, neat find. Bill, I would have never thought to ask about it. Be sure to keep everybody informed when you reproduce it!

John, I realize you are being just a bit sarcastic.

But also keep in mind, the VIN they are talking about is from the Pontiac Plant.

The date of the News Flash 10/18/63 would suggest they corrected the build error very early (no more than 6 weeks into production). But I think it must have been corrected much earlier. P3950 was assembled somewhere around 9/15/63. So more like 2 weeks or less after production began.

In the first 3950 units built at the Pontiac Assembly Plant, you can guess not many were GTOs so this mistake affected very few builds. And many of them were likely still in dealer inventory, not yet sold.

So I would guess this wasn't a very big problem and most were likely corrected before they ever got into customer hands.

Still, wouldn't it be cool to find a very early built survivor GTO that has lived for 50+ years with the wrong reading dipstick??!!

It isn't clear from the SCN if GTOs assembled at the other Assembly Plants could have had the wrong dipstick too. Since Pontiac VINs at the satellite Plants would have been much lower (at the same point in time) than at the Pontiac Plant, perhaps they figured the 3950 cutoff would work for VINs coming out of any of the Plants, so no need to identify the Plant of origin.

I assume the dipstick was installed at the Engine Assembly Plant, so I would imagine some GTO engines with 4 Qt. dipsticks were shipped to and installed at the satellite Plants too.

Bill, did the News Flash give any other VIN points?

For those that might not be aware. The '64 GTO engines had a 6 Qt. capacity. The dipstick was "rated" 5 Qt. while 1 Qt. resided in the oil filter. Hence the use of the 5 Qt. dipstick.

I guess it kinda begs the question. To be factory correct, should a very early built GTO have a 4 Qt. dipstick??!!

[bill ryder]

If so, I guess by mistake only.
John, you and I are looking from two different views. You are looking from how many, from when to when and where, and could there still be one somewhere. My interest is strictly detailing the engine correctly. Honestly, when I started the thread, I never expected to find or even see a picture of the tag. I don't know all the 421 abbreviations listed, but it sounds like every dip stick intended for a 5 qt. capacity should have this tag, but the NEW GTO model was the only engine that could have gotten a 4 qt. dip stick by mistake.
"Bill"!

[John V.]

Bill, I was being facetious about the idea of a 4 qt. dipstick in a GTO! But some guys in the old car hobby do agonize over whether they should duplicate a "factory mistake" if that was how their car was built or should they fix it to duplicate how it was supposed to have been built.

And like you, I was fascinated to see that tarheeltempest has an original tag and I share your interest in detailing the engine correctly. So I was serious, if the tag will be reproduced, I'd like one.

The rest of my post was just addressing the SCN in that I'm sure very few GTOs were built with the wrong dipstick. Just having a little fun was all.

[tarheeltempest]

Originally Posted by bill ryder

THANK YOU!! I am truly surprised at the quick response. PLEASE give me some measurements on circle diameter, type and thickness of paper and size of font.
The bulletin states it was on the handle. Do you believe it was OR on the straight blade? If on the blade, it would keep the bell from sealing on the tube.
In advance, THANKS for all you help.

John Misney (the duplicator!!), you have any interest in this?? "Bill"!

PM sent.

[8LUG]

How will judging go with the TAG!

[bill ryder]

Hi John. Personally, I think the judges will learn something just as we have. I always take a photo copy of something new I do to show anyone why I did it.
2011 I was docked for having 65 seat belt buckles. The forum provided me with documentation they were correct and I showed the right people the proof in 2012. No problem.
This year at Columbus, the judges were discussing first design tail light lenses inside or outside reflector. Mine are on the inside. Jim M. confirmed inside is correct.
They also spoke of trunk weather strip ends not being centered on the trunk latch. I believe there were 2 original care at the show with the weater strip centered. I will have those photos later.
We have the document stating 5 qt. dip sticks this tag. SOOOO.
If we keep digging, we'll keep learning. "Bill"!

[62 bv]

i think that we know moor about some of are cars then the judging staff if you show them a copy of the news flash what can they say but you learn some thing new every day i want one for my 64 thanks brody

[dld]

Bill, I do the same with things I learn here. this year a GTOAA I took some info on the 65 early cars not having the hood secondary latch stop. Last year I was docked for lack of hardware. Before the judging started I showed docks to judge. This was accepted as ok. I did get docked for trunk weather seal not off center however. I actually think off center is correct but JMO

JV
The GTOAA guide for restored cars states (BEST DAY FACTORY BUILD) some what profound But! This would be much more cut and dry with a assembly manual.

[GT182]

So what does "BEST DAY FACTORY BUILD" actually mean in layman's terms?

Is that a day that no workers in any GM plant were drunk or hung-over? LOL

[bill ryder]

Over restored!! "Bill"!