[Kiwi Mal]

I have been looking at this wrongly haven't I. As in Cliffs 4th pic it shows how the weights through out. I have been thinking the end of the centre plate contacts the curve of the weights in advance, but it goes this way doesn't it. Now I have welded up the advance slot it has become clearer. Live and learn, it's the first time I have had to do this.

[Sun Tuned]

Stop! Stop!

Like I said earlier,would all the rookies please sit down, grab a sharp pencil and please take some notes!!

That excludes you Mal, you arent included in that comment.

First of all did you see the dried up grease on the shaft? Of course you did, you did a nice job cleaning it all up. Got some 600 sandpaper preferably wet or dry type and would like to see you hit it with a douse of oil or some type of penetrating oil. Lightly hit that shaft with the 600 and dust off any possible burrs on the shaft. If you got a brake cylinder hone and not a very coarse one but a fine one hit that reluctor bore with it just to be sure. Just a few strokes we're not trying to rebore the thing, just be damn sure there are no burrs. Ok grease in the groove and some engine oil on the reluctor bore, great! reassemble that.

I saw your pics and gathered from that what I actually saw in motion on your video. The reason your weights dont follow the center cam is solely in your method in which your trying to replicate what actually happens in the car. cant do it that way it will never look right. Turn the dist horizontally and grab the tip of one weight and that weight should be at the 12 oclock position for this to work right. Pull out on the top weight and watch the bottom weight move all on its own...see. I believe if you try this it will actually be in contact. The way you were moving it only will tell you if its smooth or not it wont let you see what youre looking for. You can put up the items in the plastic container for a rainy day on a MSD distributor. Might lose the 2 "Hood Springs" in there though as they are stock for all MSD wares and require upwards of some 6000 rpm to utilize full advance.



For the Rookie department, you guys may now begin taking notes...

Im seeing 2 sets of weights and center cams.
1. a stock 398 centerplate
and a pair of modified(ground on tips) 053 weights, one of which has a slightly
oblong weight hole, so you might check into both weight pins as you will probably find one with a beginning of a groove in it.

2. A moroso curve kit... File these in the trash can as they dont even make good fishing weights ( use old discarded spark plugs instead)

Pontiacs use numbers down for proper operation of the center cams as Gm intended.
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" (Tom Vaught)

Jeff what you see is a factory GM distributor housing there, but since your new to all this, I'll go slowly...See the "Delco-Remy" insignia just to the left of the vac advance frame there? Of course you did, your glasses might have been blemished slightly or it likely could have been paralax error.

There is also an aftermarket module.
Stock pickup coil.
Aftermarket vac advance pull pin plate, that really would work better if on the other side( on the actual pull side), but then I never use these. I got the proper Delco advances still in stock, so I cheat and just use those instead.

For what its worth I luv me some Rocky Rotella, but the lil chart thingy you rave about....
For a fact I did that over the internet a full year and a half before anyone else is known to have recorded one in cyberspace, so no cigar on being that genius, that would be me. But you are welcome for the idea for it. Feel free to waste time checking into this...

This whole thread has been overwhelmingly entertaining at times but highly a waste of bandwidth just to get a guy fixed up.

What I see looks good so far, and what dont, well , you now have the tools to get it where it does.

Oh and Mal,
Any questions you might have... if you take me some pics I'll gladly answer for you free of charge.

[Tom Vaught]

Mr Sun Tuned, Always happy to see your posts. Learn from every post I read.

That being said, if I need a NORMAL distributor tuned up (and I have a couple of them), I will send them on down to you. Never ran a HEI in a performance car. (I guess you could say the 78 TA I owned was a performance car but it did not perform well when the HEI Modules took a dump SEVERAL TIMES.) Sad when you need to carry a couple of modules with you when you go on a trip with the wife.

Thanks for helping Mal with his stuff. I think everyone was trying to help Mal in reality.

So be nice to Jeff as he is a good guy too. Too many of these back and forth posts and George and I will need to get a new job on the board. Don't need the competition


Happy New Year Sir!

Tom Vaught

[shaker455]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Mal

I have been looking at this wrongly haven't I. As in Cliffs 4th pic it shows how the weights through out. I have been thinking the end of the centre plate contacts the curve of the weights in advance, but it goes this way doesn't it. Now I have welded up the advance slot it has become clearer. Live and learn, it's the first time I have had to do this.

How you making out Mal?

[kyle_blake]

Tom, do you run points distributors since you don't like hei with stock modules?

[hectore3]

This thread is about Mal. Let's not make it about personal beef.

[Kiwi Mal]

Originally Posted by shaker455

How you making out Mal?

I put new grease in the shaft groove, welded up the advance slot by a third and put it all back together. I got a total of 36 deg advance after this. I set the initial at 20 as before. I also put the centre plate in the correct way up.
Took it for a run and it seemed flat and to be missing, was A bit peeved.
Then I noticed I had pulled a plug wire off to check the oil and never put it back on .
I took it for another ride and it was much better but it still is way down on power so I might open up the slot a bit more and give it another 2-4 deg of total.

Cheers.

[shaker455]

At what rpm does your advance begin?
At what RPM does your total come in?
What carb are you running & what's your elevation?

[78w72]

still confused why you are at 20 initial? is it still pinging?

did you call jim L & ask what he suggests, since he built the engine??

[77 TRASHCAN]

Man 20 initial is a buttlaod...My 7.6:1 400 recommended 18 initial (factory), but it was a crutch for the low compression engine w/ the teenie weenie stock cam.

X2 on calling Jim...

[Sun Tuned]

Well it likely needs just a touch of carb work...

Seems a lot of guys find shortcomings in the carb dept can be crutched by running the initial off the scale.

Now, I know some folks who can help out there. You can probably reach one of em during shop hours. I leave Ya a number case anyone wants to make a call, you know save everyone from having to waste time looking for it...
1-740-397-2921

[Cliff R]

That's why my phone is ringing off the hook today....thanks!!!

I really don't mind as it's produced enough parts sales to pay my light bill for about a week....LOL.

Seriously, the OP may run up quite a phone bill unless they have free International calling.......Cliff

[Chris65LeMans]

I'm definitely not one of the experienced voices in this thread, but agree that 20 initial timing is probably too much. If you add 4 degrees to get 24 initial, 40 all-in, I bet it'll run worse. (definitely too much initial timing, and probably too much total, too.)

[Kiwi Mal]

I posted this earlier.
When I first received the engine from Jim he said to start with 12deg initial but some experimenting will be needed. Total could be anywhere with E heads from 28 - 40deg probably around the 36deg mark depending on octane rating of fuel.

I just reset initial to 12 deg and took it for a run and it seemed quite responsive from the start of acceleration. So cleaning up the shaft of the dist probably has done some good
Though running the engine up through the revs with the timing light on didn't produce a very smooth or stable reading. On the road giving the throttle a squeeze in third at about 1500 rpm produced a back fire through the carb. I tried it again and it didn't back fire but spluttered. I am going into the local speed shop to see if I can get a spring kit for it. I need a bigger selection of springs I think.
The carb is a new Quick fuel 850 cfm vac sec. It won't be spot on but should be close.
Cheers.

[shaker455]

Mal,
I post these everywhere so here ya go! :
http://www.amazon.com/AEM-30-4100-UE...s=aem+wideband

[78w72]

if jim & most everyone else on the thread says 12, i bet thats where the initial should be. i have a similar combo with e-heads & i know from brief dyno tests that it didnt like anymore initial than 12 on the fuel i was using. suntuned set my hei up based on numerous specs of the engine & car, he built all the needed timing into the mech adv of the dist & the vac advance. i really dont think you need to start with so much initial & then play with welding stop points or unknown aftermarket springs to get to a certain number. i have heard that even if you get a good combo of springs, the cheap aftermarket springs will fade over time & get the timing curve all out of wack again.

backfiring out the carb is usually sign of retarted timing, but too hard to determine whats going on there over the internet. have you pulled plugs to see if anything obvious is happening? & do you have another known good carb you could swap just to see how it runs?

also what damper do you have? i assume it has timing marks on it so you can see whats happening at a verified rpm? do you have a seperate tach you can see in the engine bay or a helper giving it gas while you read the timing light. a dial back timing light is an easy way to see whats happening. im far from the expert so thats about all i got for internet diagnosis/suggestions. good luck.

[Tom Vaught]

I agree, a Dial Back Timing Light seems to make things easy BUT I have seen several of them that were not reading the correct timing in DIAL BACK mode.

We calibrate the garage timing lights every 3 months at Ford Research as you never know if the light was dropped, or there is another issue. Something to think about.

Tom V.

[Kiwi Mal]

Originally Posted by 78w72

if jim & most everyone else on the thread says 12, i bet thats where the initial should be. i have a similar combo with e-heads & i know from brief dyno tests that it didnt like anymore initial than 12 on the fuel i was using. suntuned set my hei up based on numerous specs of the engine & car, he built all the needed timing into the mech adv of the dist & the vac advance. i really dont think you need to start with so much initial & then play with welding stop points or unknown aftermarket springs to get to a certain number. i have heard that even if you get a good combo of springs, the cheap aftermarket springs will fade over time & get the timing curve all out of wack again.

backfiring out the carb is usually sign of retarted timing, but too hard to determine whats going on there over the internet. have you pulled plugs to see if anything obvious is happening? & do you have another known good carb you could swap just to see how it runs?

also what damper do you have? i assume it has timing marks on it so you can see whats happening at a verified rpm? do you have a seperate tach you can see in the engine bay or a helper giving it gas while you read the timing light. a dial back timing light is an easy way to see whats happening. im far from the expert so thats about all i got for internet diagnosis/suggestions. good luck.

The dampner has SFI spec 18.1 A532576 and also this marking ((PB).
No other carb to try.
I have no choice but to play with aftermarket springs. I have not seen the factory ones for years.

Cheers

[78w72]

you can buy used gm hei's for pretty cheap on ebay or from members on forums. i could ship an hei for about $40-$50 to most countries. & im sure there are used gm springs for very cheap too. talk to suntuned about that, im sure he could hook you up with a estimated combo of weights & springs to get you close to where it needs to be. or at least tell you what to look for.

[dmac]

I think you need to use ported vacuum advance. try setting your initial, without vacuum to about 12*. Then reconnect your vacuum advance. If the timing immediately goes up to 20* or so, you are using manifold vacuum for vacuum advance unit. From what it sounds like with the backfire, you need more advance at higher RPM. Ported advance will kick in just above idle, and then your mechanical will kick in. If you are at 12* WITH vacuum advance already in at idle, you get only mechanical above idle.