[Peje]

On the Trim-Tag it says: 2WG and 4D.Any clues about 4D?
Car built in Lordstown.

[gtojon]

If the 4D is on the left side of tag, it is the body time built code, "4" denotes April, "D" 4th week. Usually the stamp would be 04D. A picture would help...

[Peje]

The build date is 07B. Go to: www.pontiacforum.se then to "Kaross/Chassi/Inredning" then to "Identifiera typskylt",scroll down to picture.

[johnta1]

Does it have a rear window defogger?

[johnta1]

I may have it wrong, 3B for a Camaro was defogger.

So, not sure what the 4D is.

[A Schab]

In the Camaro world 4D is for the rear traction bar.I'm not sure if it means the same thing for a Firebird.

[johnta1]

I thought of that.

On the Camaro, they only got one bar I think when used.

Wonder how/if Pontiac would mark the Firebird when some could have one or two bars?
(or zero)

[Peje]

Originally Posted by Peje

The build date is 07B. Go to: www.pontiacforum.se then to "Kaross/Chassi/Inredning" then to "Identifiera typskylt",scroll down to picture.

On the Billing card: 333,342,463,472,503,622,71H,72E,74C,75Y,76J,77R and 782

Any clues to page 2?(PHS and Billing Card)

[johnta1]

333 - Firebird 326 CID
342 - Push Button Radio (AM)
463 - Deluxe Wheel Discs – Std. W/Cust. Trim
Deluxe Steering Wheel – Std. W/Cust. Trim
472 - Console
503 - PS & PB
622 - Spare Tire - conventional
71H - Tires? (not sure what they are)
72E - Tires? (not sure what they are)
74C - (not sure what they are)
75Y - (not sure what they are)
76J - (not sure what they are)
77R - (not sure what they are)
782 - Automatic

[John V.]

I don't have a lot of experience with Firebirds, drawing from my experience in the GTO hobby.

71H/72E (HE code) is almost certainly the tire code for the E70x14 Wide Oval Blackwalls that were included as part of the 2 bbl 326 (code 333) V8 package option.

782 indicates the 2 spd auto trans option.

75Y/76J designates the Engine Code, YJ being the Firebird 2 bbl 326 engine code in combination with the auto trans option.

I believe 77R identifies the specific trans code. The specific trans was a function of the rear axle selection.

74C is the one I am least confident about. I believe this is a generic code related to the transmission choice. I believe it is tied to the auto trans choice. Would need to check other '67 Firebird Billing History Cards to confirm that auto trans builds all show the same 74C code or at least all 2 bbl 326 with auto trans all show 74C. In a '65 GTO, code 744 meant a 4 spd, box 77 then was coded for the specific 4 spd, one of 3 choices, code 778, 779, or 77W depending on options and axle ratio.

Accessory Group 4 codes are rare for Pontiacs. The most frequently seen Group 4 code is "F" to signal a Remote Control Outside Mirror.

Only other one I am familiar with is 4G, it was used (at least in '64 & '65) for the Tempest Custom and to the best of my knowledge signifies the Décor Moldings that were
used on this model.

Your 2W indicates the 2 spd auto trans, very possibly a floor cutout associated with this trans when also equipped with Console.

Your 2G indicates the Console.

Note, it is generally unknown what Fisher Body modifications were made when the car got such options, Fisher Body often did not install the option itself, just made the provisions for the option that was usually installed at Final Assembly.

Since none of the other options point to anything that Fisher Body needed to worry about, the 4D might have indicated specific trim installed (or deleted) when the car was equipped with the 326 option.

The Power Brake option on the early A body resulted in the use of stainless trim for the pedals.

Don't know if the '67 Firebird got pedal trim with the Power Brake option, but even if it did, I don't believe Fisher Body was involved with the selection/installation of the pedals so I doubt the 4D is related to the Power Brake option.

I lean to the possibility that 4D is associated with specific trim items installed (or deleted) by Fisher Body when equipped with the 326 option.

[Inogame]

71H/72E - E70 x 14 Red Stripe – Wide Oval tires

Are you sure the Assessory option 4 is a D? (not sure what shape your tag is in) I have a 4Q and that is for Full size spare.

I've got a ton more paperwork at home and will log in when I get off work, I may be able to fill in any blanks that are left.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by A Schab

In the Camaro world 4D is for the rear traction bar.I'm not sure if it means the same thing for a Firebird.

Originally Posted by johnta1

I thought of that.

On the Camaro, they only got one bar I think when used.

Wonder how/if Pontiac would mark the Firebird when some could have one or two bars?
(or zero)

How does this bar (or bars) attach on each end?

K

[John V.]

Originally Posted by Inogame

71H/72E - E70 x 14 Red Stripe – Wide Oval tires

Are you sure the Assessory option 4 is a D? (not sure what shape your tag is in) I have a 4Q and that is for Full size spare.

I've got a ton more paperwork at home and will log in when I get off work, I may be able to fill in any blanks that are left.

Good catch.

This car does show the Sales Code 622 Conventional Spare option and the Firebird hobby identifies the 4Q as fairly common and connected to the Full Size Spare.

Confusing a Q for a D would not be unheard of.

I bet you got it right.

[Inogame]

Originally Posted by John V.

Good catch.

This car does show the Sales Code 622 Conventional Spare option and the Firebird hobby identifies the 4Q as fairly common and connected to the Full Size Spare.

Confusing a Q for a D would not be unheard of.

I bet you got it right.

It made me think of it because I had originally thought I had 4O, until I found the broadcast copy where it said Q.

[johnta1]

How does this bar (or bars) attach on each end?

Just like the 67 Firebird ones are?

One end is bolted to a bracket off rearend (like a ladder bar bracket) and the other end is bolted to a bracket by front frame.
This would only be on one side. (passenger)

Firebirds could have both sides.

[Inogame]

Originally Posted by John V.

I don't have a lot of experience with Firebirds, drawing from my experience in the GTO hobby.

71H/72E (HE code) is almost certainly the tire code for the E70x14 Wide Oval Blackwalls that were included as part of the 2 bbl 326 (code 333) V8 package option.

782 indicates the 2 spd auto trans option.

75Y/76J designates the Engine Code, YJ being the Firebird 2 bbl 326 engine code in combination with the auto trans option.

I believe 77R identifies the specific trans code. The specific trans was a function of the rear axle selection.

74C is the one I am least confident about. I believe this is a generic code related to the transmission choice. I believe it is tied to the auto trans choice. Would need to check other '67 Firebird Billing History Cards to confirm that auto trans builds all show the same 74C code or at least all 2 bbl 326 with auto trans all show 74C. In a '65 GTO, code 744 meant a 4 spd, box 77 then was coded for the specific 4 spd, one of 3 choices, code 778, 779, or 77W depending on options and axle ratio.

Accessory Group 4 codes are rare for Pontiacs. The most frequently seen Group 4 code is "F" to signal a Remote Control Outside Mirror.

Only other one I am familiar with is 4G, it was used (at least in '64 & '65) for the Tempest Custom and to the best of my knowledge signifies the Décor Moldings that were
used on this model.

Your 2W indicates the 2 spd auto trans, very possibly a floor cutout associated with this trans when also equipped with Console.

Your 2G indicates the Console.

Note, it is generally unknown what Fisher Body modifications were made when the car got such options, Fisher Body often did not install the option itself, just made the provisions for the option that was usually installed at Final Assembly.

Since none of the other options point to anything that Fisher Body needed to worry about, the 4D might have indicated specific trim installed (or deleted) when the car was equipped with the 326 option.

The Power Brake option on the early A body resulted in the use of stainless trim for the pedals.

Don't know if the '67 Firebird got pedal trim with the Power Brake option, but even if it did, I don't believe Fisher Body was involved with the selection/installation of the pedals so I doubt the 4D is related to the Power Brake option.

I lean to the possibility that 4D is associated with specific trim items installed (or deleted) by Fisher Body when equipped with the 326 option.

74C - Axle ID - 2.56 ratio, XB code (UN) if its a safe-t-track (need 711)

I was wrong on the tire codes - HC is red line, HD is White, I do not know HE - John V was probably right the first time I'd say.

77R - Transmission Manifest Code - Automatic-326-N.A. W/AIR

Sorry, I've got nothing more for the Group 4 option, Like I said I've got a 4O

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Just like the 67 Firebird ones are?

One end is bolted to a bracket off rearend (like a ladder bar bracket) and the other end is bolted to a bracket by front frame.
This would only be on one side. (passenger)

Firebirds could have both sides.

Thank you; so no interface with the body itself?

If that is the case then I wouldn't expect there to be any Fisher body codes on the trim tag relative to these traction bars (because Fisher wouldn't care).

Originally Posted by johnta1

Wonder how/if Pontiac would mark the Firebird when some could have one or two bars?
(or zero)

I would expect there to be a specific box on the build sheet/build manifest, indicating one bar or two bar by part number or broadcast code (or **** for none).

K

[John V.]

Inogame, please clarify. You said 4Q 1st time, now you say 4O.

Also A Schab says 4D is radius rod for a '67 Camaro. Not so according to CRG which has done a lot of research for Camaro codes. No 4D code for the '67 Camaro. More likely, 4P is what he was thinking of.

Read more here:

http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#67Codes

and here:

http://www.camaros.org/l30m20.shtml#4P

Firebird radius rod usage (and design) was different for the late release '67 Firebird and does not seem to have merited a 5 Group code.

'67 Camaro did not use the 4Q code (or 4O, whichever is correct) because the Camaro standard content included a Conventional Spare. They did not offer the Space Saver Spare option until '68.

The Space Saver Spare was standard content in the '67 Firebird from what I can tell. The Conventional Spare was optional.

If Fisher Body was responsible for installing the Spare Tire or, more likely, if some accommodation for mounting it required Fisher to modify the standard Body Assembly, a 5 Group code for the Conventional Spare option makes perfect sense.

Peje's '67 Firebird got the Conventional Spare.

[Inogame]

Originally Posted by John V.

Inogame, please clarify. You said 4Q 1st time, now you say 4O.

Also A Schab says 4D is radius rod for a '67 Camaro. Not so according to CRG which has done a lot of research for Camaro codes. No 4D code for the '67 Camaro. More likely, 4P is what he was thinking of.

Read more here:

http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#67Codes

and here:

http://www.camaros.org/l30m20.shtml#4P

Firebird radius rod usage (and design) was different for the late release '67 Firebird and does not seem to have merited a 5 Group code.

'67 Camaro did not use the 4Q code (or 4O, whichever is correct) because the Camaro standard content included a Conventional Spare. They did not offer the Space Saver Spare option until '68.

The Space Saver Spare was standard content in the '67 Firebird from what I can tell. The Conventional Spare was optional.

If Fisher Body was responsible for installing the Spare Tire or, more likely, if some accommodation for mounting it required Fisher to modify the standard Body Assembly, a 5 Group code for the Conventional Spare option makes perfect sense.

Peje's '67 Firebird got the Conventional Spare.

Note to self, never try to reply to these things on phone.
I have a Q in the 4th space. 4Q.
I accidentally thought the Q was an O, because the trim tag was in poor shape.

I also saw a thread about the radius arms a couple weeks ago that was interesting and may contribute to this discussion. I'll take a look for it and add a link. Firebirds could have one or two arm set ups depending on the motor and transmission set up.
Once I find it I'll post again.

[Inogame]

I found this - Body Tag Analyzer - http://firstgenfirebird.org/body-tag-analyzer/

I also found the thread talking about the Radius Arms (bars) -
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=765648

Links to this - http://firstgenfirebird.org/f-a-q/po...rear-end-1967/