[Daniel Barton]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Well, John - Bill Anderson and David Visner spoke at length during the PRI show where Visner's Pontiac heads were on display. David revealed that he had taken cup ports (that he had on file) and placed them individually over the Pontiac bore spacing in CAD. He then enlarged them proportionally to the bore size.

So, no my comments are not silly - they are spot on. If you find that insulting, I don't know what else I can do for you.

What a great definition of hearsay! So what your saying is, it is a fact that you do not know this to be a fact, you just heard this from someone. Correct? Guess what that makes it Dick? You fit right in!

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by Daniel Barton

What a great definition of hearsay! So what your saying is, it is a fact that you do not know this to be a fact, you just heard this from someone. Correct? Guess what that makes it Dick? You fit right in!

... it is spot on ... Calvin was there also ... not hearsay ...

[65nss4spdGTO]

Yes,

Visners told me they have done quite a bit of development on the cup side.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

So when are the three stooges selling there cvWhat junk?

Jack,

Did that motor only make 1080 HP?

WOW!

So my little $4,695.00 pair of CVwhat heads came within 105 HP of your $22,000+ investment.

Let me get my calculator out...
$22,000
-$4,695
= $17,305
/105HP
=$164.81 per HP.

Things that make you go hmmm.....


Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[Badbird69]

John,

I find it ironic that someone as opinionated and outspoken as yourself tries to play the "I'm insulted" card.

How is it that you "find it insulting to the people that design this stuff when people label this stuff as such", yet it's apparently okay to let the insults to Jim Sammons' design go unchecked. Do you see the double standard here?

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

John,

I find it ironic that someone as opinionated and outspoken as yourself tries to play the "I'm insulted" card.

How is it that you "find it insulting to the people that design this stuff when people label this stuff as such", yet it's apparently okay to let the insults to Jim Sammons' design go unchecked. Do you see the double standard here?

Because no one has called Jim's head a copy of another head, as if there was no effort or difficulty in the design and engineering. They just insult the design itself. Or more insult the designs results and truth is the results this far it would be expected. As well as acceptable. I have certainly been one of those insulting the design as well, but a thing is what it is. Emotion can't change it. Good is good and bad is bad.

With that said I think Jims original design concept was spot on for the market. But I also feel he got lost in the middle and or does not have the vision or frame of reference as to how and what makes power with in a cyl head. But he shouldn't , thats not what he does. However a little this ,and bit of that ,and you could have a good head with that casting.

[slowbird]

Less talk, more track results

[mjm421]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

So when are the three stooges selling there cvWhat junk?

I'm not selling mine. I love em. You even need help waxing or cleaning parts?

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

Jack,

Did that motor only make 1080 HP?

WOW!

So my little $4,695.00 pair of CVwhat heads came within 105 HP of your $22,000+ investment.

Let me get my calculator out...
$22,000
-$4,695
= $17,305
/105HP
=$164.81 per HP.

Things that make you go hmmm.....


Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Well then, just put some nitrous on this bad azz motor you built and bring cash at Norwalk and take my money then!

But I remember how that Mustang CV1 motor ran that you did on nitrous so I'm not worried.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Lil,

Sonny's motors have powered many championship cars. Where do you get the idea that they haven't?

And Gaby did in fact put his offer to Jim in writing on PZ. He asked for an open ended five figure check. You might want to research your facts.

And speaking of facts, I can only wish my car weighed only 2950 lbs. But I guess you just can't help yourself from embellishing your point of view. It is also not a gutted out race car as you so incorrectly describe it. It has carpeting, head liner, working headlights, taillights, flashers, turn signals and horn. When we compete in our local street legal class, we run steel doors with roll-up windows, mufflers and D.O.T. tires ....... and still run 7's.

So at least in our case - yeah, we DO show it at the track.

Sonny, not Bill has championships.

So show me it in writing where Gaby said it would take five figures to fix the head and that's what he wanted for him to fix them.


Ok, maybe 3050#. That's still 410# lighter then I was when I went 7.94 then ran 171 at Norwalk two years ago, with a Victor intake and a single dominator.

[Daniel Barton]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... it is spot on ... Calvin was there also ... not hearsay ...

Sure Bill, the point is that you were there, Not Dick! When he states it, it is in FACT... hearsay. With all of these years now passed, how long has it been since he or myself has expressed a negative opinion in a post on here regarding this casting? Its amazing the amount of wood that is still being held in some form of vendetta. That is crazy! I suppose if it is used to motivate and get somewhere with this head then something good will come from it? It just seems like a lot of emotions involved and over time things get twisted and turned and insinuation gets turned into "facts" and a tremendous amount of negative and wasted energy. Good luck

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Less talk, more track results

That's the truth.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Ok, maybe 3050#. That's still 410# lighter then I was when I went 7.94 then ran 171 at Norwalk two years ago, with a Victor intake and a single dominator.

IIRC Dicks track numbers were better than the weight difference alone would account for ...
You and he are both power adder....both with choice of adding more power, or losing weight or a combination of both.

Majority of racers want no more weight than they need to meet rules of class they race in. Been around drags since little kid 50+ years haven't seen a payout for fatest car. You chose to run heavy that's your choice/issue.

BTW earlier this year you were tellin us YOU were going to take some weight out because class you were going to run in was somewhere around 3000 lbs.... Still the plan?

So Dick could possibly be similar weight, maybe a tid heavier??? This should be interesting.

Your cryin about weight has long been annoying...to point now its just a pathetic excuse.

If you guys are going to race each other it may be good idea to at least establish what weight or weight per ci range you plan runnin at. With 9.5 months til Norwalk I think enough time for both of you guys to work that out. Chose to run significantly heavier and use it for excuse if you lose, just doesn't seem logical IMO

One can only wonder what excuse you come up with if this race happens at similar weight and you don't walk the talk.

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Tin indian GTO

Thinking of starting a new engine combo.
505cu in
twin turbo efi
street driven on pump gas combo
race gas at the track if need be

I currently have my old set of 72cc edelbrock heads off my old nitrous motor. They were purchased from Butler and flowed 320 cfm from them. I am looking into if I should just freshen these heads ie valve job, springs etc. or sell them used and buy a set of cv-1's and be ahead as far as power potential. Thanks!!

Getting back to the OP questions.

Since this is new engine, internals, pistons, rods valve train ect will need to be purchased. Not once in this thread did the OP use the words "CHEAPER" or "LESS EXPENSIVE".

So here are a few facts to consider.

Casting quality / heat treat on the CV-1 is superior.

Deck thickness is .125" greater.

Cut off exhaust makes fabrication much more effective for turbos.

Large 95cc+ smoothed CNC chamber option allows for increased piston top thickness with a better pin location, rod length and ring pack options versus dropping piston .100" in the hole to reduce compression or big dish to the piston top.

Large entry CSA without the use of offset rockers and lifters.

So if power isn't the issue because the turbo experts say the cylinder head doesn't matter, all of these area's will be improvements to the complete build.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

Getting back to the OP questions.

Since this is new engine, internals, pistons, rods valve train ect will need to be purchased. Not once in this thread did the OP use the words "CHEAPER" or "LESS EXPENSIVE".

So here are a few facts to consider.

Casting quality / heat treat on the CV-1 is superior.

Deck thickness is .125" greater.

Cut off exhaust makes fabrication much more effective for turbos.

Large 95cc+ smoothed CNC chamber option allows for increased piston top thickness with a better pin location, rod length and ring pack options versus dropping piston .100" in the hole to reduce compression or big dish to the piston top.

Large entry CSA without the use of offset rockers and lifters.

So if power isn't the issue because the turbo experts say the cylinder head doesn't matter, all of these area's will be improvements to the complete build.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

How many of those points do you really need Calvin when the basic E-Head has worked fine in very high HP applications. A basic 455 with a slightly touched up 310 cfm E-head HAS made ~860 HP at 5300 rpm and ~860 torque with only 13 psi of boost using a small Vortech Supercharger. Brian H on EFI should make 1200+ on a soft tune-up with his Procharger and CV-1 heads and 20+ psi of boost. Butler/Travis makes over 2000 HP with a dinosaur E-Head so where is the bang for the buck? Butler does not have the convertible exhaust port or the 95+ cc combustion chamber and apparently does not need it in his turbo/methanol installation. Air seems to flow thru their inline valve E-heads just fine.

Sounds like a bunch of very nice features that are not necessary with boost.

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

The E-Head at best is a Dinosaur head you WILL make more HP with any other Head (High Port, Tiger, DCI RA5, Warp6, ETC.) out there with exception of the factory cast heads. Yes it WILL make HP in a Boosted engine BUT so will a factory cast head. Any racer out that is running quick with an E-Head WILL likely go quicker with any of the above mention heads. Now that more racers are using the CV head that head will likely pass the E-Head in time also. Come on lets get serious, Ill bet you guys still have Black & White TV with tubes in it.........LOL!


GTO George

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

How many of those points do you really need Calvin when the basic E-Head has worked fine in very high HP applications. A basic 455 with a slightly touched up 310 cfm E-head HAS made ~860 HP at 5300 rpm and ~860 torque with only 13 psi of boost using a small Vortech Supercharger. Brian H on EFI should make 1200+ on a soft tune-up with his Procharger and CV-1 heads and 20+ psi of boost. Butler/Travis makes over 2000 HP with a dinosaur E-Head so where is the bang for the buck? Butler does not have the convertible exhaust port or the 95+ cc combustion chamber and apparently does not need it in his turbo/methanol installation. Air seems to flow thru their inline valve E-heads just fine.

Sounds like a bunch of very nice features that are not necessary with boost.

Tom V.

I agree with what the Butler Group has done with the E-head. I'm sure with the talent they have, they could achieve those results with many different options.

I was fortunate to have a long conversation with the OP. I even offered to loan him the various Pontiac cylinder heads I have in my shop so he can take to his engine builder to discuss. BTW his builder has a great deal of experience in turbo applications using other brands and making big power. Based on the OP's goal, 1500+ HP with the ability to street drive for long distances, longevity is as important as power.

What would be one reason other than costs that would be of benefit for the OP to use his old tired E-heads? I even advised him if he decided to stay with E-heads, sell the used ones and start fresh as his will require a complete makeover.

Anyone feel free to chime in.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I agree with what the Butler Group has done with the E-head. I'm sure with the talent they have, they could achieve those results with many different options.

I was fortunate to have a long conversation with the OP. I even offered to loan him the various Pontiac cylinder heads I have in my shop so he can take to his engine builder to discuss. BTW his builder has a great deal of experience in turbo applications using other brands and making big power. Based on the OP's goal, 1500+ HP with the ability to street drive for long distances, longevity is as important as power.

What would be one reason other than costs that would be of benefit for the OP to use his old tired E-heads? I even advised him if he decided to stay with E-heads, sell the used ones and start fresh as his will require a complete makeover.

Anyone feel free to chime in.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Would one reason be the E-heads have already exceeded the OPs goals? So it would be already proven. Has a CV head done this?

[gene simmons]

What HP and et is expected from the OP? The requirements in the first post was that it would be a 505cid,TT ,street driven on pump gas. Once that is determined,then see what head would work best for his particular combination.
He may be able to meet his goals with the eheads and put the money into the turbo setup.

[mjm421]

What would make more power? A 450 cfm head at a given boost number or a 400 cfm head at the same boost? If there is a difference, what would it be ?