[jimib]

Hello All,

I’m not seeing any oil coming up through the lifters.

As part of my (never ending) ground up restoration, I pulled the engine to paint it and the engine bay. All I did was install a new oil pump “shaft” and gaskets for the oil pan, valley pan and timing chain cover and new crank shaft seal. A few months later I got the engine installed and installed a new wiring harness kit. I also added an oil filter relocation kit. A couple of days ago I finally got the engine to start. But after 20 to 30 seconds I didn’t like the sound of slight valve knock. Naturally, I shut down the engine. I took the relocation kit “out” and went back to “stock” oil filter set up. I verified the oil pump works because when I had the relocation kit installed, I removed the hoses from the filter, cranked the engine and oil came gushing through. So this is a relief. I tried priming the engine with a drill and bit I fabricated down the distributor shaft (someone suggested I try this) but I’m not able to keep the bit in place when I spin the oil shaft. I tried priming the engine with the starter but not seeing any oil come up through the lifters.

I’m really dead in the water with this problem and asking for support-suggestions.

[Ron Genovese]

It could have something to do with the routing of your lines to your filter. The bottom line should be into the filter and upper is the exit. If reversed your filter may have an anti drain back valve that wouldn't allow oil flow. Also make sure when priming through the distributor with a drill that you are turning counter clockwise. It takes a lot of spinning with the starter to see oil coming through the lifters on a dry engine. You can make a primer drive rod out of an old drive rod and a welded on spacer. Hope this helps some.

[jimib]

Hello Ron; thanks for replying.

This is why I removed the “oil relocation kit” and put the oil filter back on the block in its “factory stock” location. Because oil was gushing through “both” lines simultaneously, something appeared big time wrong and Summit Racing Tech Support agreed with me and sending me an upgraded replacement. I was super careful installing this kit which is now removed. Meanwhile, I’m back to stock set up.

Counter clockwise…”YES”…I did this and felt resistance on the drill (good thing) but was really difficult to keep my fabricated bit in the grove. Perhaps I should try your “drive rod and welded spacer” idea. Hopefully it won’t spin off the shaft. Good suggestion. Meanwhile, it’s easier to just continually crank the engine with a recharger on the battery.

[tom s]

Pour some STP in all the rockers and fire it back up.Let it run for a few min and then pull the covers and see if you have fresh oil up there.Tom

[Goatracer1]

If you have an old distributor remove the gear on the bottom and the advance pieces on the top. Connect a 1/2 inch drill and install the dist. body in the engine and prime that way. I've used one like that for many years.

[rexs73gto]

Once you get a real oil primer set up to use then try while your priming the engine to slowly turn the crank as your priming it. When you turn the crank it will send more oil up to the lifters as it will go up through all the oil passages as you trun the engine over. It will let more oil come up to prime the engine as you turn it. It will take a long time to prime the engine good engough to see it up in all the lifters. It may take as much as 20-30 min's to prime it all the way. Best bet is to use an air drill as an electric drill usually get to hot before it gets primed.

[jimib]

Goatracer: No old distributer laying around, so I bought a 1 – 1/8 inch wood boring bit and grinded down the blade flat. I put this piece in the drill and this seems to stay stable on the groove on the oil pump shaft.

Rexs73gto: 20 to 30 minutes to prime? Really? I’m glad you told me this as I now know what to expect. I was able to get a good spin on the shaft for 5 minutes then the electric drill got really hot (as you said) and my back could no longer take the fatigue of hanging over the engine. No oil came up in that time. I’ll buy an air drill in a couple days. I figure I can spin the oil shaft 5 minutes at a time and then put a breaker bar an impact nut on the crank shaft front bolt and spin the engine by hand a few times then back to the drill.

[Ron Genovese]

Originally Posted by jimib

Goatracer: No old distributer laying around, so I bought a 1 – 1/8 inch wood boring bit and grinded down the blade flat. I put this piece in the drill and this seems to stay stable on the groove on the oil pump shaft.

Rexs73gto: 20 to 30 minutes to prime? Really? I’m glad you told me this as I now know what to expect. I was able to get a good spin on the shaft for 5 minutes then the electric drill got really hot (as you said) and my back could no longer take the fatigue of hanging over the engine. No oil came up in that time. I’ll buy an air drill in a couple days. I figure I can spin the oil shaft 5 minutes at a time and then put a breaker bar an impact nut on the crank shaft front bolt and spin the engine by hand a few times then back to the drill.

It should never take more than one minute of priming to see oil at the lifters. Did you fill the filter with oil before mounting it?

[Satyr1966]

I recently did this on a 389 I had rebuilt. I have an oil pump priming tool that goes in the drill but I don't remember where I bought it. Oil started making it to some of the rocker arms fairly quickly but others stayed dry. I did think to move the crank several times & eventually the oil overflowed all the rocker arms. It did take about 20 minutes. Jerry.

[jimib]

Ron: No, I did not fill the oil filter prior to install. Next chance I get I’ll removed it, fill it and re-install it.

The engine typically takes 6 quarts of oil. For priming purposes, what are thoughts of adding an additional 2 or 3 quarts just until priming is achieved?

[Ron Genovese]

The pump pulls oil through the pickup which is already submerged in 5 quarts of oil, so additional oil won't make a difference. Do you have a gauge hooked up that you can or someone else can watch while priming?

[jimib]

At this time, no gauges as I plan to convert to gauges. I suppose I could pick up a cheap one at Pep Boys.

[TedRamAirII]

If the drill is having a hard time turning the oil pump, you are making pressure. It should not take more than 30 seconds on a dry engine to get the filter and passages full of oil. Remember on a oil filter, oil flows IN from the outside, OUT from the middle. After that, fire the engine.

[tom s]

The engine has been running!Should not be a issue to start it again.He had oil thru the oil lines.Might just have been lifters that had not pumped up yet.Tom

[jimib]

Originally Posted by tom s

The engine has been running!Should not be a issue to start it again.He had oil thru the oil lines.Might just have been lifters that had not pumped up yet.Tom

Tom: Yes, this engine was running like a champ before I pulled it out. But for the two weeks I had it bolted to the engine stand, it was nearly void of oil.

[vidguy]

Turn the crank in increments as you prime for a few seconds, turn, run drill turn... just a little, 15 - 20 degrees at a time.

[lust4speed]

Question: Do you really think an employee stood there for about half an hour priming a new Pontiac engine before it was first started? Bonus question: Do you really think the Butlers or Kaufmans stand around with a drill for 20 minutes?

I use an old Craftsman 3/8" drill for priming because I don't see any reason to use my good DeWalt. There's a pressure gauge screwed into the hole by the distributor, and I prime for about 20 seconds after the drill loads up. I know my gauge needs to read about 65psi with the old drill and the break-in oil I use, and if it does the engine is ready to come to life. Not that it matters, but how much assembly lube do you have left on the bearings after 20 minutes of flushing? Why use assembly lube at all if it is going to end up in the pan before the engine first fires up?

[jimib]

I bought a cheap 3/8” (4 CFM) air drill and this was NOT powerful enough to spin the oil shaft. Went back and bought a cheap ½” (5 CFM) air drill and this had enough power to keep the oil shaft spinning using my modified bit. I spun the shaft a few times in 3 to 4 minutes increments and slightly turning the engine between increments. The fatigue on my hands and back hovering over the engine requires me to take breaks. Does the shaft need to be spun 20 to 30 minutes non-stop?

THREE folks here on this thread state the priming should not take anywhere near 20 to 30 minutes. I’m just here trying to gather advice for this dilemma and I read all advice.

I don’t yet have an oil gauge. My next block of time, I’ll pick up a cheap $18.00 Sun Pro and modify the fittings so that it will screw in to the hole next to the distributor. I think my final results will be the same:

If the gauge sees NO pressure…bad oil pump…pull the engine AGAIN.
If the gauge sees “pressure”…blockage…pull the engine AGAIN.

This is what I see down the road next couple of weeks. I was hoping to have the resto-mod completed by years end to drive it in the warm, sunny, dry weather we have here in South FL in the winter. Completion date now appears to be Spring, 2015, start of rainy season.

[Ron Genovese]

Jim, Sorry to hear, but at this point there is something more going on here. Trust me when I tell you that 20 minutes is ridiculous.. One to two minutes max and you should feel very noticeable resistance. Did you pull the pump to install the new drive rod, or did you install from the top? If from the top, are you positive it is engaging with the oil pump drive? Some shafts have nubs on them that would make them impossible to seat from the top without grinding the nubs off. Are you definitely rotating your drill counter clockwise?

[fyrffytr1]

In your original post you said the oil pump was working so something is wrong somewhere else. Did you pull the stock filter off to see if any oil was in it?