[norespect74]

I put a new sub frame under my 74 (from a 74 ventura) and cannot get the front clip to line up. There is no gap at the windshield and tons of gap at the bottom of the body. anybody got a suggestion?

[Rob B]

Could be a lot of things. Wrong body/core support bushings. Subframe not aligned properly to the unibody. Bent subframe or unibody. More info and picts would help.
Its the same subframe used in 67-69 F bodies and 68-72 X bodies so its nothing "Pontiac" specific. Only the steering setup is different for 73-74 for some stupid reason otherwise everything interchanges between the 2 body styles.

[72Ventura]

My guess is you are missing the 1/2 inch spacers at the firewall subframe connection.

[Mr. Ro]

Had something similar happen when I rebuilt the front clip of my 77 Ventura. I went from the stock rubber bushings to the solid aluminum type from Competition Engineering. Ended up with the fenders jammed against the metal stops just below the windshield, leaving zero adjustment. Alignment on the bottom of the fender & door gap was still OK however. I suspect the aluminum bushings to be thinner than the rubbery balloons they replaced, and I planned to add a polyurethane shim (for alignment and to reduce vibration at idle), but the car is going back to it's original owner soon...

In your case, I wonder if you have the correct bushings; my later-model car did not have the spacers mentioned by 72Ventura, but I agree with him that the firewall-area bushings are the most likely source of your trouble. Pictures of the misalignment would be helpful--- I'm trying to visualize where your 'tons of gap at the bottom of the body' really is.

Whatever you do, use new bolts... mine were chewed down to almost half their original thickness by rust.

[norespect74]

[ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]
I think I have attached a couple of pictures. One is a side shot that clearly shows the gap I was talking about. The others are of the mounts. At least the best I could get. The gap is this big with no rubber at the core support. Can anyone recommend a good source for frame mounts. I can't remember where I got these and think that is the first place to start, with a new set of the right ones. I never heard of a spacer at the firewall but they shimmed a lot of other stuff so anything is possible. Lastly Summit shows the part of the frame mounts with the steel piece inside goes between the frame and body in the four places under the body. Is that correct. My factory shop manual shows the same thing so I suspect it is correct. I need to have this car ready to go on a trailer in four weeks to go to it's and my retirement home where it will be completed. I drove the car for a couple of years many years ago before embarking on a project never finished. I have a 68 SS el Camino in only slightly better state of restoration. Any help again appreciated.

[Rob B]

IN your third photo, that is the forward bushing by the firewall. Do you not have a bushing between the mount on the subframe and the body? The photo looks that way. Also make sure you align the subframe to the body. At those 2 front mounting points, you'll see an extra hole in the frame mount and in the body next to where the body nut is. You need to put a rod of some sort up thru the hole in the subframe and thru the hole in the body to line it up before you tighten any of the other bolts up.

[norespect74]

If you look in the photo at the top of the post that is the firewall mount on the passengers side and you can see the mount more clearly. The other was on the drivers side taken from below and doesn't show the mount. I had a bar made to do the alignment with and made sure it was aligned when it was originally installed. I also check it whenever I change something out.

[norespect74]

Should the frame be parallel to the bottom of the body when installed?

[Mr. Ro]

Something about the driver's side rear subframe bushing doesn't look right to me, it appears to be sitting too far outboard, and it's not on a flat load-bearing surface (at least that's how it looks in the photo).

Do you have a horrible gap on the PASSENGER side of the clip too? If not, you've probably got the subframe mounted skewed... I looked at some old pics of my 77, and it seems there's another mounting hole inboard of where your current rear bolt is sitting. Maybe compare to how the passenger side is mounted.

The driver's side firewall bolt also seems shifted out of position, raising my suspicion.

Yes, the subframe should be parallel to the floorpan.

[norespect74]

Back mounts pretty much have to be in the right spot since the front ones at the firewall are. Gap on the passenger side is the same as the one on the drivers side. I think mounts are wrong or a spacer is missing because the frame is not parallel to the body. Adding thickness at the firewall would correct this or removing thickness at the back frame mount would do the same thing as far as leveling the frame out goes. Any ideas on how I can get a picture of someone elses?

[Mr. Ro]

Well, it's reassuring that both sides are the same--- I was really grasping at straws for a minute.

There's got to be SOME kind soul on this msg board who's willing to take some measurements and/or photos at the firewall location. Sorry I don't have the right version of Ventura. (Matter of fact, I don't have ANY version now... I just loaded the '77 on the transporter yesterday for the trip back to the original owner!)

Roland
1984 Alfa Romeo GTV-6
1977 Lancia Beta HPE
1976 Mercury Capri qty 2
various faceless daily drivers

[J.Mentzer]

I've got the motor out of my 74 Ventura and can take as many pictures as you need to try and help you figure out what the problem is.
My car has never had the front sub-frame removed and it only has 76,000 miles on it.
Please let me know what you need to see and or measure and I'll do my best.

[norespect74]

I would really appreciate it if you could measure the distance between the top of the frame mount at the firewall and the bottom of the matching body mount at the firewall. Also look to see if there is a steel spacer above the rubber mount and if so how thick it is. Should be about .5". This stuff is under the power brakes or the ac/heater so it won't be easy but if you could it would help me so much.

[J.Mentzer]

I measured the frame to firewall clearance right before it curves up so it's measured at the flatest spot on the firewall.
The drivers side is 15/16".
The passenger side is 1 5/16"
The frame to body mount bushings located close to the firewall do have a washer on top, the bottom looks to be just rubber against the frame.
It looks like a cup style of washer that cups the rubber bushing.
Here's some pictures for you, I hope that this helps you out :-)

[norespect74]

That does help. I think I might have the wrong bushings. The measurements you got are the same ones I get when I add a Half inch spacer on top of the firewall rubber mount and when I do that the fenders almost line up correctly. I appreciate the quick reply and the photos.

[J.Mentzer]

You are so welcome, I'm glad I could help you out.
If I can be of any other help just shoot me a PM - Thanks - Jeff

[Rob B]

Throw a set of these in all 6 mounting spots instead of the rubber mounts.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cee-3027/overview/

[J.Mentzer]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Throw a set of these in all 6 mounting spots instead of the rubber mounts.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cee-3027/overview/

YES - There on the list!
Thanks for posting that as I didn't know they made black anodized ones