[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by 60man

Haven't cracked a 2014 rule book but IIR if you ran more than 135 MPH or 9.99 ET NHRA required a license regardless of ET. I was always careful to mark my fastest MPH as 134 when it was clicking off low ten's @ 138 MPH passes..
Did that change?

Either/or.

9.99 or 135 MPH requires a cage.

Cage requirement typically also means a competition license is needed as well.

Roll bar is ok to 10.0 so long as the firewall/floors are unaltered,yadda,yadda,yadda.

Bret P.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by prostreet64

SC, I was assuming cars at speeds under the 135 rule. Most of the imports that I have seen at our track that are running the big speed #s are 'older' cars, probably 90s vintage. My main point is to expose the inconsistency of the NHRA rule that is based on e.t. when in fact the speed is the real issue. I am not asking for an exemption, but I would like to see the NHRA change the rule to incorporate speed as well as e.t. for cars in that 'grey' area; say 11.49 e.t. or over 120 mph triggers the roll bar rule.

Not to seem dismissive here,but NHRA/IHRA rules are chock full of inconsistencies,so to pick one to the exclusion of the rest ends up being a losing battle.

And NHRA/IHRA dont really care much what the rank & file sportsman racers think,in their mind,you dont like their rules,dont race under their sanction.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that for every person that may indeed be happy to see something instituted like your talking about here,I'm sure they'd have plenty more that would be screaming bloody murder.

It would probably take a rash of sub 135 MPH rollover crashes (and possibly a death or two) before they'd ever make a change like that.



Bret P.

[ventura7211]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Where does the SFI get their data?

They have the ability to test items. The rest of their data comes from accidents, which is why so many rule changes take place after a bad wreck, usually fatality, as well as data from engineers and professionals in the industry.

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Thread here awhile back about SFI balancers for Pontiacs coming apart-SFI really inspect or have engineering specs for them?

They would have inspected a few, those would have passed their specs for the ability to purchase and install their SFI tags. Not every one is tested before it is sold.

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

I'm all for being safe but I do not think they have crash dat ato back up their rules. Batteries -I'd bet GM/.Ford has more data on battery movement in crashes yet NHRA requires larger bolts to hold down.

Most OEMs have the battery up front in a crash zone where the impact has the battery taken into account. Most racers move the battery to where it best serves as ballast for the chassis.

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Seat belts -wear and even more UV light weakens the nylon-hw many of these cars get sunlight exposure to break them down? Again a 12 second car running a roll bar needs them but not if there is no roll bar?

I know that is their "insurance policy" and we need to protect people from themselves-but I think most are arbitrary with no real science behind them,and probably more sponsor related so the racers need to buy more new parts.

I think they would be OK extending the seat belts out to 3 maybe 4 year intervals, but even in a situation where the car is always garaged, hauled in an enclosed trailer, and normally raced only in the evenings into night, you can tell a difference in color and feel between the old belts an new belts when replaced, so either the manufacturer is messing with the dye and material or the belts really do degrade over time, not to the point of the risk of them breaking, but to the point of them having the ability to stretch during impact which would lead to larger problems for the driver in a car with a roll cage.

Personally, I do not think they do enough in their cage certs for feet protection.

[ventura7211]

Originally Posted by 60man

Haven't cracked a 2014 rule book but IIR if you ran more than 135 MPH or 9.99 ET NHRA required a license regardless of ET. I was always careful to mark my fastest MPH as 134 when it was clicking off low ten's @ 138 MPH passes..
Did that change?

Technically, according to NHRA's rule book and guidelines, a Competition License is only required when running 9.99 and quicker ET or 135 mph and faster at NHRA sanctioned events. That is how the rule is written, not all events held at NHRA tracks are NHRA sanctioned events, thus those events have not had to follow the license requirement.

The NHRA is working on closing that loop hole, too much money "lost" for them. I would imagine they will have the rule amended before this time next year.

[60man]

Originally Posted by ventura7211

Technically, according to NHRA's rule book and guidelines, a Competition License is only required when running 9.99 and quicker ET or 135 mph and faster at NHRA sanctioned events. That is how the rule is written, not all events held at NHRA tracks are NHRA sanctioned events, thus those events have not had to follow the license requirement.

The NHRA is working on closing that loop hole, too much money "lost" for them. I would imagine they will have the rule amended before this time next year.

Thanks for clarifying that rule. Guess I didn't have a problem as I try not to a NHRA event.. With GP I won't have a option....Comp. Lic. time.

[Skip Fix]

Part of why I'm shooting for 10.0s in the IA Camaro.

[60man]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Part of why I'm shooting for 10.0s in the IA Camaro.

Yeah..but making some 8 or 9m second passes is on my bucket list....

I may have to drop back to a 10 second later for sake of low maintenance..

[Skip Fix]

I did put in a cage in case I "get the need for speed" and 10.0s in the Texas heat.

[Rock C]

Originally Posted by prostreet64

There was a late model Caddy at the track last Friday night and he was running mid 10s at 134; no bar or cage. I asked one of the track employees about it, and he said that NHRA was allowing some of the newer cars, he wasn't sure how many, to run as quick as 10.00 and up to 135mph without a bar or cage. Does anybody know which cars are on this list? Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers, Caddys? If this is true it ticks me off because my son's Bird is banned from our track because he runs 11.40s at 118 and some dude with a bunch of money and a supercharged 2014 whatever is okay to 135!

this rule is for cars as they came off the showroom no modifications change anything ie ,air cleaner the rule does not apply

[Nicks67GTO]

Wait just a minute....back to the original post. Youre buddy has a new Caddy thats UNALTERED running in the 10's? Seriously? That would make it the fastest production vehicle GM ever produced wouldnt it? Whats he running an LSA with the boost turned up?

[60man]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

Wait just a minute....back to the original post. Youre buddy has a new Caddy thats UNALTERED running in the 10's? Seriously? That would make it the fastest production vehicle GM ever produced wouldnt it? Whats he running an LSA with the boost turned up?

Yeah...noticed that too..
At track last week end I noticed a new daily driver Jeep SUV running 12.18-12.20's !!!
Claims he has no tuner....bone stock !! Damn..

[prostreet64]

Okay guys, this is why I posted in the first place. I wasn't sure about the rule for these factory 'supercars', and if what Rock C said is true that they must be unaltered, then I knew something wasn't right about the Caddy CTS-V running 10.67. The best e.t. that I could find for a stock CTS-V was 11.97, and that was achieved by some racers who knew exactly what to tweek and was run in very good air. The typical times were listed as 12.7 to 12.8. Next time I am at the track I may just have a talk with the manager as to why this car was allowed to make multiple passed at these #s. Gainesville Raceway is an NHRA owned and managed track so they should be aware of the rules; one would think!

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by prostreet64

Okay guys, this is why I posted in the first place. I wasn't sure about the rule for these factory 'supercars', and if what Rock C said is true that they must be unaltered, then I knew something wasn't right about the Caddy CTS-V running 10.67. The best e.t. that I could find for a stock CTS-V was 11.97, and that was achieved by some racers who knew exactly what to tweek and was run in very good air. The typical times were listed as 12.7 to 12.8. Next time I am at the track I may just have a talk with the manager as to why this car was allowed to make multiple passed at these #s. Gainesville Raceway is an NHRA owned and managed track so they should be aware of the rules; one would think!

I would suggest taking some fellow racers with you.

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

I would suggest taking some fellow racers with you.

LOL...that's what I was thinking. Where I come from "snitches get stitches".

[Probird]

Tracks can follow whatever rules they want to follow unless it's an NHRA sanctioned event which a weekly program is not. They can add rules or take rules out to fit their weekly needs to attract cars. Most elect to follow the NHRA rulebook because it's easier. They do take a chance that someone from the insurance company would show up though and give them a hassle about their safety program.

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by prostreet64

Okay guys, this is why I posted in the first place. I wasn't sure about the rule for these factory 'supercars', and if what Rock C said is true that they must be unaltered, then I knew something wasn't right about the Caddy CTS-V running 10.67. The best e.t. that I could find for a stock CTS-V was 11.97, and that was achieved by some racers who knew exactly what to tweek and was run in very good air. The typical times were listed as 12.7 to 12.8. Next time I am at the track I may just have a talk with the manager as to why this car was allowed to make multiple passed at these #s. Gainesville Raceway is an NHRA owned and managed track so they should be aware of the rules; one would think!

Not to be argumentative, but I can't see how a CTS-V is "only" running 12.8's, hell with my 300# fat ass my G8 GXP is almost a dead nut 13.0 car, and MANY have been in the 12's and totally stock.

The Caddie has the same weight, 150 EXTRA hp and wider rubber, something isn't right here?

And I would imagine it would be VERY easy to get more boost out of that caddie and it would not be noticeable to the naked eye.

[wrench]

http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/...v-hpe1000.html

[screamingchief]

The term "unaltered" as it relates to the roll bar/cage rules would mean that the body structure,the interior,and safety equipement had not been modified in any way from the OEM equipment.

So FYI said rule would have absolutely nothing to do with the drivetrain being modified for more ET/MPH,just so long as it does'nt eclipse the 9.99/135 threshold.

The relevant statement I could find from NHRA states:

Originally Posted by NHRA Racer

Additionally, requirements and specifications for Street Legal are
the same as those for the Summit Racing Series with the following
exception. Unaltered 2008 OEM model-year and newer production
cars running slower than 9.99 and 135 mph do not have to meet
the requirements and specifications for the Summit Racing Series
except for the following: Convertibles and T-tops must meet Summit
Racing Series roll-bar and roll-cage requirements, All drivers must
meet the Summit Racing Series helmet and protective-clothing
requirements.

HTH

Bret P.

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

....

So FYI said rule would have absolutely nothing to do with the drivetrain being modified for more ET/MPH,just so long as it does'nt eclipse the 9.99/135 threshold.
......

HTH

Bret P.

Except the rule reads: unaltered.... cars, which I take to mean any modification, including drivetrain. Now, of course, enforcement is another matter.

Jim

[prostreet64]

Well it seems that there is some disagreement as to what 'unaltered' means. I think the CTS-V is rated at 556 hp which is not enough juice to push that car to a 10.67 at 134, especially with a soft 60' time of only 1.83, which is what he ran on one of the passes. So maybe the upgrade is legit under the rule or maybe not, but if not then I am surprised at Gainesville Raceway seeming to let it slide. As I said earlier, they are owned and managed by NHRA and I have never seen them let anything by that didn't adhere 100% to the rule book; liability being the main driver, of course.