[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

My car started life as a gold 71 Esprit

Now its a 73 455 T/A clone..... So I can do whatever I want with it and not worry about ruining a real T/A.

NICE!

[AdamIsAdam]

For the record, I'd be very proud to drive a `64 LeMans. Just like I was proud of my `68 LeMans. My 68 did have a GTO hood and rear spoiler. Both of which were on the car when I bought it and I thought they looked great.

My dilemma is that my new car is already a clone, so when people ask, what's the comfortable reply?

I think I've actually answered my own question. Which actually, is technically correct for a `64... it's a LeMans! Because in `64, they were all LeMans, weren't they?! LOL

[i82much]

Take your average guy in the 60's. Offer him a stock 389 tripower gto or a lemans with a 421 super duty in it. the guy takes the lemans every time. i do not know what happened between then and now, but a guy out burning rubber in his hot rod lemans is a heck of a lot more true to the original ethos of a GTO then a guy organizing his date-coded plug wires for his gto and never driving it.

[Dick Boneske]

Of course we'd take the SD 421 LeMans over a 389 GTO. How about a SD 421 GTO, though? I'd take that over a LeMans of any type.

Not driving our old Pontiacs has nothing to do with GTO vs. LeMans. The ones that are trailer queens give the owners a different kind of thrill than driving one.

I'll take the thrill of driving my GTO over looking at it in storage or on a trailer anytime. How about the guys that race their old Pontiacs and have modified them so they can no longer be driven on the street?

To each his own. It's not for us to judge how to enjoy our old Pontiacs---or any other old car!

[AdamIsAdam]

I like driving them like they were meant to be driven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vk7OlLcqu4

[arbys]

When I bought my 66 convertible it had the GTO badges and hood. I knew that when I bought it but liked the car. Most people only remember the GTO and I tell them them it's a LeMans and most people have a puzzled look on their faces.

It was interesting watching the BJ auctions and the commentators comments on the cars. These guys are real car collectors and know their way around the car business. Their comments are that it's "a car that has been transformed, cloned to a ----------. That's alright as long the seller discloses that fact". As much as the purist doesn't like it, and I, also, agree with it but a hobbyist wants what he wants. Look at the real deal 32 Fords. The new reproduction steel 32"s are peaking the interest of very many hobbyists.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

Of course we'd take the SD 421 LeMans over a 389 GTO. How about a SD 421 GTO, though? I'd take that over a LeMans of any type.

Not driving our old Pontiacs has nothing to do with GTO vs. LeMans. The ones that are trailer queens give the owners a different kind of thrill than driving one.

I'll take the thrill of driving my GTO over looking at it in storage or on a trailer anytime. How about the guys that race their old Pontiacs and have modified them so they can no longer be driven on the street?

To each his own. It's not for us to judge how to enjoy our old Pontiacs---or any other old car!

To each their own, sure. I don't have any beef with guys organizing their plug wires by date code. What does bother me is guys looking down on cars that don't have the right pedigree. A Lemans on the road beats a GTO in the garage 7 days a week in my book.

[71SportRagtop]

I don't see a problem with clones. As long as you're not listing your clone on eBay as a number's matching Judge.

Not all of us can afford the $40-$50K to buy a restored 66 GTO tri-power 4 speed. If a guy is spending say $15-$20K on a clone and he's enjoying it that's fine with me.

When I'm discussing my car with people I simply say that I have a 68 Firebird. It's only when talking with car people that the conversation turns to whether my car is all original or not. The guy giving me a thumb's up when I take it out on a Saturday night doesn't care if my car is original or not he just likes seeing a cool car.

[Chastings]

I see nothing wrong with a LeJudge.... As long as it's not misrepresented; especially when it's time to sell.

[WDCreech]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Because in `64, they were all LeMans, weren't they?! LOL

Not exactly. In '64 & '65 there was the plain Tempest, the Tempest LeMans, and the Tempest LeMans with the GTO option.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

I'm not a fan of clones in this hobby!

1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, Sheriff Buford T. Justice Montague Co. TX replica. 455/TH400

Replica, clone, tribute, recreation its all the same right.

Just bustin ya balls.

[rexs73gto]

I don't mind the clones either. But I do mind when a guy says it's 100% real & then when you confront him/her with the facts & say what gives. Then the guy/girl gets mad at you & tells you your full of sH1t when you can see that it's not real. The one I'm talking about is a 72 LeMans convertible that was put together by a friend of mine. He pasted away & it sold in his estate sale. The guy turned up at our local cruise & tried to tell us all that the car was an original 72 GTO convertible with the 455 HO engine in it. The car in reality was/is a 72 LeMans with a 350 that my friend installed all the parts on it to make it up as a 72 conv. It even has a buick rear spoiler on it & the kid says it was on there from the factory. I tried to explain to him that I helped Steve build this car , but he just got mad & left the cruise. Thats the kind of car I don't like, or should I say the guy who tried to convince others of the lie.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

I don't mind the clones either. But I do mind when a guy says it's 100% real & then when you confront him/her with the facts & say what gives. Then the guy/girl gets mad at you & tells you your full of sH1t when you can see that it's not real. The one I'm talking about is a 72 LeMans convertible that was put together by a friend of mine. He pasted away & it sold in his estate sale. The guy turned up at our local cruise & tried to tell us all that the car was an original 72 GTO convertible with the 455 HO engine in it. The car in reality was/is a 72 LeMans with a 350 that my friend installed all the parts on it to make it up as a 72 conv. It even has a buick rear spoiler on it & the kid says it was on there from the factory. I tried to explain to him that I helped Steve build this car , but he just got mad & left the cruise. Thats the kind of car I don't like, or should I say the guy who tried to convince others of the lie.

Thats terrible.

My Dads 69 Camaro has Yenko stripes on it. People ask all the time if its a real one, even after they see the lq4 under the hood. It makes me laugh. Sometimes I'll say its real just to have them ask why we would modify a real Yenko.

[zeebo]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

I'm not a fan of clones in this hobby!

i agree 100%. i cant stand the terms "clone, tribute, replica, dedication" types for these cars..it has cheapened the hobby and fooled many folks into buying a car that is misrepresented--especially when you cannot get PHS documents for. i think really it all comes down to $--people do it that cant afford a real one (not that i agree with the inflated prices of real ones) and clone their cars so they can command big money when it comes time to sell it. id rather have a ratty real GTO or SS chevelle than a mint clone. id be embarassed and have no street cred with my car buddies if i had a clone.

[rexs73gto]

Again I don't mind the clones if your doing it for your own & it's not for profit so you can sell it at an inflated profit. If it's not real & your dressing it up for yourself thats fine it's your car but don't do it to sell it for more............. Also on the side track but kinda on the same vane. I get tired of some,,,,,,, mostly younger guys in their late 20's to late 30's come up to me & say GTO ????? I didn't know Pontiac even made a GTO in 73. Then when you say yes they did, & also in 74. I've had guys want to argue with me & say things like most that are less intellegent say Pontiac stopped making real GTOs in 72 didn't they. Then you ask them when did they make GTOs & they will say UH ??? Well from 1964 to 1972, tose were the real GTOs. Thn you get to burst their little bubble & tell them that the 64-5 & 72-73-74 were only options on the LeMans except for the 74 which was on the Ventura body. They always look at you like your the one who is no so........ People........ sometomes are so STUPID. Even when they think they know for sure. Those are the ones that yell the loudest.

[Garry Sr]

Is the camaro a clone of the firebird or is the firebird a clone of the camaro? Inquiring minds want to know...

[rexs73gto]

Well depending on who you talk to the Camaro was first but in reality the Firebird was first, in development. Becaue of Ford coming out with the Mustang in 64 1/2 Chevy got the nod to build the Camaro first. But the Firebird had been in development since 1962 with several different code names. At one time most know that it was going to be called the Banshee , but during the test phase fro teh name the term Banshee was looked down on because term was thought of as bad becasue how the church looked at it . The name was scraped. The name Firebird was also down on the list but it di make it through. Now the Camaro was also the cheap end like all the Chevys were/are. The Firebird got a better suspension as it got bigger sway bars & it also got stiffer springs that were 1 inch lower then the Camaro. John D. was directly involved with the design of the way it handled & because he was made to wait until after the Camaro was unvailed before he could build & sell the Firebird he was goign to make it BETTER then the Camaro in almost every way. Thats why the Firebids ride & handling is better then the Camaro, & has better interior appointments. So really the Camaro & Firebird are twin sisters just one was born a few min's early then the other. And one was much prettier then the other too. (we know which one)

[Garry Sr]

I'm impressed rex, and now we now how the term came to be: " A camaro is nothing more than the poor mans firebird" My next question is how did a small block chevy end up in my 81 Trans Am?

[Sidponcho]

who cares? buy, build and drive whatever you want however you want. what difference will it make when you're dead? Have fun!

[AdamIsAdam]

I wanted a nice car to drive, and I mean DRIVE, and tinker with, modify, etc. The rest is semantics I suppose.
(And we all agree fraud is bad.)